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  1. #1

    meta on marksman broken

    Many marksman play top or mid now. They get ganked and die but still get more gold then the enemy marksman who has pro support and never dies or leaves lane.

    normal meta would be going bot with a support. In infinity crisis it is not a good idea.

    1- XP is halved. Which is same in all moba games. Marksman depend on base hp/stats for burst so it's a big deal in early.
    2- Gold is halved. Even if support leaves you all the farm your gold is so much less than laning mid or top.
    3- Sustaining through lane is not as effective. You can only carry a ward and it only exists for 3 minutes. After that you or your support have to go back and get a new ward from base. Which will make you vulnerable to 2v1 from sides. Which will make you play safe and ruin your farming.
    Also everytime enemy comes from base they will refill potions. Which is a huge deal early.
    Potion brush and gang advantage combined is more effective than sustaining through so you have to go get the wards again.

    Solution: Fix dividing gold. People should play support w/o gold
    most support skills scale pretty good with level so they won't be hit hard by this fix.

  2. #2
    Considering Harmony
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    Re: meta on marksman broken

    Quote Originally Posted by grotesque1 View Post
    Many marksman play top or mid now. They get ganked and die but still get more gold then the enemy marksman who has pro support and never dies or leaves lane.

    normal meta would be going bot with a support. In infinity crisis it is not a good idea.

    1- XP is halved. Which is same in all moba games. Marksman depend on base hp/stats for burst so it's a big deal in early.
    2- Gold is halved. Even if support leaves you all the farm your gold is so much less than laning mid or top.
    3- Sustaining through lane is not as effective. You can only carry a ward and it only exists for 3 minutes. After that you or your support have to go back and get a new ward from base. Which will make you vulnerable to 2v1 from sides. Which will make you play safe and ruin your farming.
    Also everytime enemy comes from base they will refill potions. Which is a huge deal early.
    Potion brush and gang advantage combined is more effective than sustaining through so you have to go get the wards again.

    Solution: Fix dividing gold. People should play support w/o gold
    most support skills scale pretty good with level so they won't be hit hard by this fix.
    you want the game to be like LOL? cause thats what your saying,
    1 Going mid or Top as a marksman is not dumb or bad it works great with a smart player with good map awareness.
    2 Marskman can easily get fed bot, there are 2 creep farms in jungle you can keep stealing from there jungler if your smart and quick,i have successfully Carried from bot sharing many times and it's my favorite place to be as a marksman, like I said stealing Jungle from enemy is huge after lvl 6, if no one is jungling on your team you can start taking the 3 bot jungling camps asap, if you just play in the lane, yes it will not be as good, you need to hustle.
    3 you don't need support that's a LOL thing, there not even called Support and the charing gold changes the game a lot, there is not meta and a meta is a accident as MOBA are supposed to be flexible not have a set in stone way to win, IC is way more flexible than LOL you don't need support, you can share gold and like I said steal jungle creeps then snow ball bot easy, the game different than LOL if they made it identical I would just play LOL, so would everyone else, all the changes to the DOTA style in Gotham Divided are welcome addtions to the Moba Gen.

    if you want the game to be identical to LOL go play LOL, they just added a "rapid fire" mode that pretty much put the game speed closer to IC with super fast cooldowns, it's kinda funny LOL is trying to be like the new MOBAs, with a lot of it's new features, soon you may see lol share gold, in a couple seasons, no one wants to play a broke *** support that useless(no money no kills), only girls.

    When I go bot and a new player usally someone like you is bot I am pinging at the jungling camps and never comes to help, this is not lol you can zone out and steal your junglers Camp because the maps so much bigger and easier access to them, it's easier for a jungler to steal jungle creeps also,Eventually the more people play this map the more there be able to see how mobile you can be while laning, unlike LOL or DOTA 2 you don't have a 1 hit, although some players still play like that, it works best destroying farms fast and zoning out the enemy and being mobile by stealing camps or ganking mid, a great spell on this map is teleport as you can steal jungle camps/gank being in any spot then just port to defend your base.

    and Finally most ADC's in lol are made to be bot specifically so there kinda useless alone, IC didn't do that to Marksman, they have big gap closes(escapes) and it's super easy to play them mid or top because of that, were in LOL if you go mid as adc there just pick on the fact your a champion that's made to be with someone early game.

    IE chances are whatever marksman lanes solo will be stronger than 1 that doesn't but trust me you can easly overcome that if you win bot with a few kills and then go and pick on there marksman when you take there bot turret first.
    Last edited by Warmeat; 04-06-2014 at 04:01 AM.

  3. #3

    Re: meta on marksman broken

    @ Warmeat : I think you never played a moba or you just dont understand how things work.

    The probleme is not about marskmen it's about the carry role.There is no point to duo lane with a carry (ranged or not) in this game.Why that ? Just because you will get less gold being in a duo lane than solo or even in the jungle.The issue is not the support having gold,because in other moba supports still got golds,the main probleme is the carry in duo lane earning less with the same farm than an other lane.
    Last edited by Vahire; 04-06-2014 at 04:44 AM.

  4. #4

    Re: meta on marksman broken

    im totaly in for having specific heroes in different lanes it dosnt have to be like in lol where everything is set and every game goes the same the reason why i stoped playing lol..lol was good one year ago but now...almost every single game goes the same way and if u try new meta u will get raged by 13 year old kids..also ic terrain is much more versatile than lol one...from what i know the terrain will be more and more interactive wich will lead to a better gameplay and new strategies

    right now ic covers almost every flaw in lol and the meta can be almost anything at this point wich is good unlike in lol where u have a top mid jungler and sup and ranged adc botom
    ‎"Art washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life."
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  5. #5

    Re: meta on marksman broken

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahire View Post
    @ Warmeat : I think you never played a moba or you just dont understand how things work.

    The probleme is not about marskmen it's about the carry role.There is no point to duo lane with a carry (ranged or not) in this game.Why that ? Just because you will get less gold being in a duo lane than solo or even in the jungle.The issue is not the support having gold,because in other moba supports still got golds,the main probleme is the carry in duo lane earning less with the same farm than an other lane.
    This is the only problem with the MM role as it removes the C or "carry" from ADC. Essentially your top and mid are your only real carries and top is supposed to be part of/THE front line, while your ADC suffers in income and your support benefits. the Support does not need the same amount of gold ANY other character on the map does.

    I would not be adverse to maybe starting to try and make your support go with your bruiser/enforcer bot and have the adc go solo top.(lanes in this game are also entirely interchangeable, unlike LoL.) That way your carries get the gold they need. The problem with that though, is ADCs by them selves are incredibly vulnerable to jungle ganks, much more so than a bruiser or enforcer.
    Last edited by ZlainFury; 04-06-2014 at 11:26 AM.
    twitch.tv/zlainfury - Usually stream between 7pm and midnight EST.

  6. #6
    One With Starro JLA-Lyri's Avatar
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    Re: meta on marksman broken

    Quote Originally Posted by grotesque1 View Post
    Many marksman play top or mid now. They get ganked and die but still get more gold then the enemy marksman who has pro support and never dies or leaves lane.

    normal meta would be going bot with a support. In infinity crisis it is not a good idea.

    1- XP is halved. Which is same in all moba games. Marksman depend on base hp/stats for burst so it's a big deal in early.
    2- Gold is halved. Even if support leaves you all the farm your gold is so much less than laning mid or top.
    3- Sustaining through lane is not as effective. You can only carry a ward and it only exists for 3 minutes. After that you or your support have to go back and get a new ward from base. Which will make you vulnerable to 2v1 from sides. Which will make you play safe and ruin your farming.
    Also everytime enemy comes from base they will refill potions. Which is a huge deal early.
    Potion brush and gang advantage combined is more effective than sustaining through so you have to go get the wards again.

    Solution: Fix dividing gold. People should play support w/o gold
    most support skills scale pretty good with level so they won't be hit hard by this fix.
    You're missing the fact that you have deployable that can help you win your lane & survive just as easy if used correctly 2v1. Jungle can get the health deployable and give it to you if you need it.
    I'm not really sure why you're acting like if your support goes to get a camera your lane is totally destroyed - it would only be that way if you die, which as an MM without a support for 30 seconds, you shouldn't be dying unless you're a baddie or they EMP dive you under the tower.

    This post sounds like you had bad game or two, whilst another MM farmed solo top in a 1v1 and whooped you. Nothing more.

  7. #7

    Re: meta on marksman broken

    Quote Originally Posted by ZlainFury View Post
    I would not be adverse to maybe starting to try and make your support go with your bruiser/enforcer bot and have the adc go solo top.(lanes in this game are also entirely interchangeable, unlike LoL.) That way your carries get the gold they need. The problem with that though, is ADCs by them selves are incredibly vulnerable to jungle ganks, much more so than a bruiser or enforcer.
    Yeah this is the idea but as you said a ranged (or not) adc cant/should not handle a solo lane,else there is a balance issue.And this is not about a meta but about moba base mechanics.You farm you get gold,you kill/get an assist you get golds.In this game (i dont have the exacts numbers) it seems like kill>golds and that make strong early champ with a big advantage and throw away a lot of strategy.

    And ppl should stop taking lol as a reference.It's like you guys only know this moba and think everything others say is based on lol gameplay.

  8. #8

    Re: meta on marksman broken

    I'm all for the gold sharing idea but it should REQUIRE for the non-last-hitter to actually hit the creep in order to get gold, giving a carry solo gold while still having someone to help him secure kills and protect himself should be at least POSSIBLE if not mandatory

  9. #9

    Re: meta on marksman broken

    Just make it so that the person who last hits gets around 80% of the creeps value and anyone else nearby gets the rest divided between them down to a minimum value of 2 credits that would be fair enough.

  10. #10

    Re: meta on marksman broken

    Quote Originally Posted by dulganis View Post
    Just make it so that the person who last hits gets around 80% of the creeps value and anyone else nearby gets the rest divided between them down to a minimum value of 2 credits that would be fair enough.
    This would be fine I guess, but even 80% is less than 100, making the adc still behind the other 2 lanes. The way LoL has gone about bringing Sups up is by giving them items they can buy that passively gives them gold for minions that die in their vicinity, this I feel is a much better way to give Supports gold and still keep ADCs relevant in the role they are there to fill.

    To those of you saying "stop comparing to LoL/DotA2" If you don't compare something to a thing that already exists and is established, how do you know where your product stands? How to do you know the general idea of what types of things can and won't work? Don't be ignorant and let your hatred of something blind you to the fact that references are needed for ANYTHING you do.

    EDIT: *Bringing Sups up, not ADCs heh*
    Last edited by ZlainFury; 04-08-2014 at 12:47 PM.
    twitch.tv/zlainfury - Usually stream between 7pm and midnight EST.

 

 

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