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  1. #31
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    Re: So the communit....

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-El View Post
    So far my biggest pet peeve of the map is that not every champion is viable in their preferred Gotham Divided role. Superman while touted as a decent Top laner is inferior to Gas Joker or Batman or Atomic Green Lantern. I play this game because I have fun playing certain Champions. I am a DC fan first and foremost and If I can't have a sporting chance on Gotham divide playing the champion I love most(in their appropriate GD role) then there is a problem. I want to enjoy everything the game has to offer but I don't want to play champions whose style and overall character do not appeal to me. When that as a side-effect means I can't enjoy half the available maps in the game due to the pros and their deconstruction of competitive play, the game itself becomes one giant imbalance.
    The key to this is knowing how to lane with your champ and how to lane against the champ you are up against(<--Important). I had a game recently with Batman laning against a Superman. I won handedly, not because of the champ choices but because he was clearly new to GD. I could tell just by looking at his build. I was looking at what he was building to start countering him but I found no need because it was clear he didn't know how to buy properly let alone lane well against someone who does. Very quickly I was able to push him away from minions (zoning) thus allowing our level and credit gap to expand even further. I ended up snowballing hard that game. Are there champs that are better laners than others? Yeah. Are there champs that are flat out better than others? Yup. But not to the point that it makes your choices invalid if you know how to play them in GD.
    Last edited by Geck0; 05-08-2014 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #32
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    Re: So the communit....

    But taking all of that into account, Geck0, it boils down to a drafting **** shoot. Let's pretend for the sake of argument that we have 2 people, both who understand the fundamentals of zoning, both who know their character inside and out, both who know how to gear up throughout a GD match. Now let's say also for the sake of argument that both are going to designate Top Lane for this map. Now: Player 1 drafts an AD Melee Bruiser. Player 2 drafts an AD Ranged Marksman. Who do you think is going to win their Lane?

    Regardless of skill or build, Player 2 has a significant mechanics advantage to zoning their Lane from lvl 1. He has already ranged out his opponent for safe pokes. Player 1 is left with a dire choice: Try to get in close for some poikes of his own hoping to out trade, or sit at his tower and wait for Player 2 to finish gold farming and push far enough forward to hopefully get some bots near his tower. We're assuming Player 2 has leveled his escape ability, which most marksmen have. Meaning Player 1 is left with little to no recourse to controlling their lane. The fact of the matter is now, Champion choice becomes 90% of the fight, which means your preferences and wishes to have fun, are set aside to ensure victory through min/maxing mechanics.

    If this is working as intended then where's the actual fun in that?

  3. #33
    Considering Harmony Phil-El's Avatar
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    Re: So the communit....

    I've seen entire ranged teams just MOLEST teams on Gotham Divide. There's only 2 ways to solve such a drastic imbalance. Lower the tankiness of marksmen and blasters even more, which will probably result in mass exodus of sperglords and cry babies, OR and here's the crazy idea I'm going to be burned at the stake for: Turn Gotham Divide into AR3L. All Random 3 Lane. Turn it into a random draft match. Some pros' mouths will water at the idea. Some pros' nuts will shrivel up into their guts. But personally, if you're going to remove the element of personal preference and choice due to imbalance, then you might as well remove the element of choice entirely for everyone and see who is left standing.

  4. #34
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    Re: So the communit....

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-El View Post
    But taking all of that into account, Geck0, it boils down to a drafting **** shoot. Let's pretend for the sake of argument that we have 2 people, both who understand the fundamentals of zoning, both who know their character inside and out, both who know how to gear up throughout a GD match. Now let's say also for the sake of argument that both are going to designate Top Lane for this map. Now: Player 1 drafts an AD Melee Bruiser. Player 2 drafts an AD Ranged Marksman. Who do you think is going to win their Lane? ....
    If this is working as intended then where's the actual fun in that?
    The moment you to stated top lane and AD carry having an auto advantage in top lane you show me you haven't been paying attention in GD. I've been against ranged AD and ranged PD as a bruiser which is what I primarily play. And I have rolled them because they are (typically) poor top lane picks.

    I have also gone against an team that had a GLCW, NMBM, NMSM, SS, AND JK. Almost all carries lot of high damage. My mouth was watering cause they had no tank or bruiser to back up the NMSM with additional CC. They sent SS top against my Shazam and she got wrecked cause I immediately counter built her. After I got level 6 I killed her at will, got fed, was able to three shot anyone on their team and their team got summarily s&%$ on.

    With the most absolute respect Phil, you are in no position to make any balance claims when it comes to GD (you know this, because you know I've seen you play). I'm not trying to be insulting. I just don't think someone who doesn't understand how to play GD has any place commenting and making the assertions on the things you brought up.

  5. #35
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    Re: So the communit....

    I'm expressing the observations of what I've seen during my "training". I expressed these concerns during game and no one really offered a counter measure for early GD strategy for a Melee vs. Range top laning. So while I fully admit I don't have the experience, No one has really offered their strategy/opinion on how to counter such a difference in poke ability. How does a lvl 1 melee bruiser like Superman out zone against a ranged AD Marksman like Gas Bat, one than can that can poke them with impunity from distance and escape before the melee can get in range? I very literally had this experience in a custom match last night, and No one really offered up a solution or strategy to counter it.

    I'm not good at Gotham Divide. Not sure I will be with the champions I prefer to play, until Sinestro comes out at least. But I'm also not stupid, nor am I incapable of learning. I had another match scrimmaging against TD where I rolled their top Lane Doomsday and I rolled him hard using the very tactics you and Cloud have been teaching me. Your comment about me not paying attention is rather unwarranted and a little hurtful. I've increased my map awareness and usage of Cams in proper strategic locations and honestly while I can still say I'm nowhere NEAR your level, I've drastically improved from where I started out.

    As opposed to dismissing my observations, perhaps you would be willing to offer up advise or strategy that asserts your claim. Simply saying "I have rolled them" doesn't truly elaborate or prove your point, and does rather come off as a tad bit arrogant. With the most absolute respect of course.

  6. #36
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    Re: So the communit....

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-El View Post
    I'm not good at Gotham Divide. Not sure I will be with the champions I prefer to play, until Sinestro comes out at least. But I'm also not stupid, nor am I incapable of learning. I had another match scrimmaging against TD where I rolled their top Lane Doomsday and I rolled him hard using the very tactics you and Cloud have been teaching me. Your comment about me not paying attention is rather unwarranted and a little hurtful. I've increased my map awareness and usage of Cams in proper strategic locations and honestly while I can still say I'm nowhere NEAR your level, I've drastically improved from where I started out.

    As opposed to dismissing my observations, perhaps you would be willing to offer up advise or strategy that asserts your claim. Simply saying "I have rolled them" doesn't truly elaborate or prove your point, and does rather come off as a tad bit arrogant. With the most absolute respect of course.
    You're 100% right. And I apologize for my remarks.

    I can give general guides on how to overcome to obstacles but will do little to actually give a great effect. Next time you're on Ill make it a point of listing the details and the actual how to's for the situations you've described. As for now I think we've hi jacked this thread enough

  7. #37
    Considering Harmony Phil-El's Avatar
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    Re: So the communit....

    This thread is ours now. Let them pry it from my cold dead internets.

  8. #38
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    Re: So the communit....

    Being new myself, I find I have the same sort of issues. You generally end up being the target of every kid playing the gankiest gank character 3 shotting you the entire game whilst no doubt rubbing themselves down there in the process. Once people figure you are new they will focus and take extreme obvious risks just to get that kill on you.

    The major issue right now with this games 'beta' is in the current form new players attracted by the new setting but new to MOBA will be instantly put off by MOBA pros and it will damage the potential user base later on 'launch' , how you can have a game at this stage without a proper tutorial or safe matches for the noob is mind boggling.

    THe above poster made a valid point too about , brusier vs ranged in lanes. You never really get advice on what to do exactly, I also end up being out gunned for ages and having to TP back to base none stop, so any advice is appreciated.

  9. #39
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    Re: So the communit....

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipp View Post
    Being new myself, I find I have the same sort of issues. You generally end up being the target of every kid playing the gankiest gank character 3 shotting you the entire game whilst no doubt rubbing themselves down there in the process. Once people figure you are new they will focus and take extreme obvious risks just to get that kill on you.

    The major issue right now with this games 'beta' is in the current form new players attracted by the new setting but new to MOBA will be instantly put off by MOBA pros and it will damage the potential user base later on 'launch' , how you can have a game at this stage without a proper tutorial or safe matches for the noob is mind boggling.

    THe above poster made a valid point too about , brusier vs ranged in lanes. You never really get advice on what to do exactly, I also end up being out gunned for ages and having to TP back to base none stop, so any advice is appreciated.
    I think the misunderstanding is that they do not go after you because you're new, but because you're new you put yourself in positions you shouldn't. Experienced players see that and capitalize on it. One of the biggest mistakes I see new people doing is playing Gotham Heights while they are low level all the way up til lvl 10-20. This is setting up for a bad situation in where you have not only not learned how to play GD with low lvl players, you have built up bad habits that GH teaches. The issue is worsened when players get discouraged when they do play GD and then go back to GH because they do poorly.

    The best advice I could give someone starting the game is spend your time in GD while you are low lvl. Practice laning. If you can help it, do a solo lane. People often mistake the duo lane for being safer but 2 opponents means twice the damage.

  10. #40
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    Re: So the communit....

    It's very true that playing Gotham heights is a pretty bad preparation for playing gotham divided, things like using cameras and farming are relegated to 2nd in importance next to capping objectives and the presence of the health pads doesn't promote good trading mechanics/decision making while all these things are crucial in GD.

    The only thing GH teaches new players is what the items do which is good but not all that useful when you're getting shut down so hard you can't buy any of them, if this game ever really takes off for matchmaking to do it's job properly it may get to a point where people can actually learn the game but for now i don't see how anybody who is new at it can enjoy Gotham divided.

    As far as i'm concerned the whole of this game's setbacks are a consequence of it's lack of popularity, i had a lot of fun playing it for a while but i have barely touched it in over a week because of how disgusted by the matchmaking system i am, win or lose it pretty much never is fun.
    Last edited by sl0tw0n; 05-13-2014 at 06:28 PM.

 

 

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