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  1. #21
    Considering Harmony JoshuaLamar1's Avatar
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    Re: Letter to the Community

    the game is great and more patches to come can only go up from here as far as I see
    Sinestro:[sparring with Hal Jordan]You must IGNORE your FEAR. When you're afraid, you can't act - you can't act, you can't defend - you CAN'T DEFEND, you DIE!na server#CORE

  2. #22
    Protector ACee's Avatar
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    Re: Letter to the Community

    Don't touch cursor!

  3. #23
    Considering Harmony
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    Re: Letter to the Community

    Cardell,

    Thank you for making the time to reach out and keep us informed. Your letter could not be more perfectly timed. I know the frustration that many in the community have with the game are matched only by our passion for it and our investment in it. You continue to earn our respect and trust by recognizing all three. The dedication to this game and the reverence shown to its license by you and everyone on at the Turbine family is obvious and appreciated. This community is also committed to helping this game live up to its potential, and we are grateful to have such an unparalleled level of access and inclusion.

    Again, thank you. Keep the information coming and continue sharing your vision for Infinite Crisis with us.



    "Respect is earned"

  4. #24
    Protector Vegemike's Avatar
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    Re: Letter to the Community

    Quote Originally Posted by ACee View Post
    Don't touch cursor!
    Well, make options....different cursors or options for visibility. If you don't like them, disable them =)
    Formerly xocgx.........vegemike is just easier to pronounce!
    Steam name is xocgx
    Steam Forum name is Vegan

  5. #25
    Joining Harmony Fabrizio3k's Avatar
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    Re: Letter to the Community

    Quote Originally Posted by KoH_Nerdock View Post
    I'm just SO sick of trying to revive game modes that are amazing, but that people don't even want to play simply because a tri-lane map (hold onto your hat: it's the same reason people buy Apple products) "is the popular thing to play". And especially if the *dev's* are saying one thing and promoting another (mostly individually, but while on a Turbine sanctioned stream) and further widening the gap between maps and their populace? Pass.

    I'm just looking for equal exposure (which includes CC by the way) and it's definitely not happening yet. So forget champ releases and bugs for the future, let's get on the same page as to what constitutes "supporting a map/all maps equally".

    It's not a matter of popularity, it's just that the moba genre was born with a three lane map in mind. Besides, dominions like maps tend to be more forgiving, there's less consequence for feeding or dying, thus the mode is seen as (I'm not saying it is) a more user friendly experience.
    The impression is that LoL developers themselves didn't have a great consideration of the dominion mode, since after two years it was still lacking a ranked queue. And a lot of players moved away quickly on top of that.
    Now, the Dominion mode was ported with little to no modifications from LoL to IC. In my opinion, they should decide either to abandon it or to focus on it as the selling point of the game. It wouldn't be a bad idea, mostly due to the fact that there are two unbeatable competitors in the classic three lanes moba market at the moment, and taking a secondary path could actually spell the success of this game. Or the fall.
    One thing is sure, you can't balance the game around two completely different game modes. Dota is still trying to balance itself on one and it's been around since ten years.

  6. #26
    Community Advocate H2k_tSpark•'s Avatar
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    Re: Letter to the Community

    thanks for the hard work, much appreciated.

  7. #27
    Community Advocate Paradigm's Avatar
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    Re: Letter to the Community

    Quote Originally Posted by KoH_Nerdock View Post
    Because honestly, if GH popularity doesn't pick up? I'm out. Not because "vengeful this or that", I'm not even angry (http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130110012350/random-ness/images/e/e2/I_ain't_even_mad_will_smith.png), it's just a statement of fact. People who I'd seen on and were hitting me up about the GH tourney weren't logging on anymore, Oboroscion, Bat_Sean, the list quite literally goes on and on. The GH regulars population is dwindling. MY team is even getting sick of playing it vs. randoms SO much so that they're playing GD most of the time.

    I'm just SO sick of trying to revive game modes that are amazing, but that people don't even want to play simply because a tri-lane map (hold onto your hat: it's the same reason people buy Apple products) "is the popular thing to play". And especially if the *dev's* are saying one thing and promoting another (mostly individually, but while on a Turbine sanctioned stream) and further widening the gap between maps and their populace? Pass.

    I'm just looking for equal exposure (which includes CC by the way) and it's definitely not happening yet. So forget champ releases and bugs for the future, let's get on the same page as to what constitutes "supporting a map/all maps equally".
    OK, I'll bite. Mind you, this is just my personal opinion, but I think many people will find what I have to say to be true, in essence.

    I have a few issues with Gotham Heights. Many of these issues have carried over from Dominion in Leauge. I know there are differences, trust me I know, but they both suffer from the same thing: They're too simple. Let's face it, MOBAs in general are simple games in their essence. The "capture the hill" styles just feel pale compared to the laning maps. It's go-go-go all the time. Fighting is always happening and the gold income is whack.

    If you can think of a MOBA as a nice steak, these map styles are someone smothering that steak in ketchup. There are tons of awesome intricacies in the laning maps. Split pushing, objective control, lane pressure, zoning, etc. These things all exist in GH, but are... muted(?) In comparison. The constant action and gold injection removes the need for details. You just spawn, run to your 1 of 5 options and fight until you die, then repeat. To me it's simple and boring. This is the reason why I think GH may be a fun "time killer" map every once and a while, but I don't think I'll ever be able to take it more seriously than that : /

    Also, conventional wisdom, people like tri-lane maps because they are tried-and-true.


    Edit: Before the inevitable "it does have strategy" response, I'll clarify instead of re-writing my post. I'm not saying GH has no strategy, I've seen some tournaments that were honestly fun to watch. I'm just saying it's like checkers and chess. I'd rather play chess, you know?
    Last edited by Paradigm; 05-21-2014 at 01:23 PM.

  8. #28
    Providing Harmony KoH_David's Avatar
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    Re: Letter to the Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio3k View Post
    It's not a matter of popularity, it's just that the moba genre was born with a three lane map in mind. Besides, dominions like maps tend to be more forgiving, there's less consequence for feeding or dying, thus the mode is seen as (I'm not saying it is) a more user friendly experience.
    The impression is that LoL developers themselves didn't have a great consideration of the dominion mode, since after two years it was still lacking a ranked queue. And a lot of players moved away quickly on top of that.
    Now, the Dominion mode was ported with little to no modifications from LoL to IC. In my opinion, they should decide either to abandon it or to focus on it as the selling point of the game. It wouldn't be a bad idea, mostly due to the fact that there are two unbeatable competitors in the classic three lanes moba market at the moment, and taking a secondary path could actually spell the success of this game. Or the fall.
    One thing is sure, you can't balance the game around two completely different game modes. Dota is still trying to balance itself on one and it's been around since ten years.
    GH is not anymore forgiving then GD is. This is a very common misconception among others that GH/Dom generally have. If you have someone in GH that dies a lot and causes the whole team to lose in the team fights due to a misplay and/or you have someone that wanders the jungle or pushes a lane and get caught out 3-5 times, that is just as bad if not worse (due to how the gold gains from kills/assist are super high in GH) then having someone die 6 times in lane in the early game in GD. Those two things, which a lot of new players do, really hurts a team success in a game cause it causes the enemy team to snowball. Im not saying new players should stay away in GH, in fact I love seeing new faces, but saying it's more forgiving is way wrong. New players should be free to play any map they want though. I don't believe that new players should play X map. The last part was not really directed at you Fabrizio3k though.

    Here the thing when you compare SR/GD to Dom/ GH. The biggest reason why Dom was not successful at all in LOL and the reason take and hold maps usually are not played a lot in mobas when compared to it's laning counter parts is because of two reasons:

    Number 1: Riot gave Dom jack for support. There is no nice way in saying this. They gave the map (two-three weeks?) and then said this is not working and they pretty much dropped the ball from there. That in additional to all the misinformation from the LOL community really pushed back the maps success in LOL. Sure we got one person to help us every now and then, but is that really considered getting proper support as the map needs? This in addition to Riot pretty much clearly stating (Im looking at Morello) that they don't heavily support other modes other then SR because they don't want those maps to take away from the SR player base.

    Number 2: This brings me to my second point and something Riot seems to not understand. The reason 3 lane maps are more popular in mobas when compared to take and hold maps is because the three lane maps has a very strong target audience in the "moba market". There is no denying this. It was not always like this though. From what I known it took years for it to get the audience it has now. It did not happen over night. So in order for a take and hold map to get that audience, it needs proper long term support to get there. I truly believe that if GH got just as much support as GD, neither of them would take players away from each other. I feel both maps have two different target audience and I see no downside to attract both audience into IC unlike Riots approach.

    As a experience and mostly Dom player from LOL, GH in IC has enough new things in it that sets it apart from Dom. Also as for it being two hard to balance two different game modes, I think that is false. Just do what Riot did and have separate balance changes. It works well if you ask me.
    Last edited by KoH_David; 05-21-2014 at 02:12 PM.

  9. #29

    Re: Letter to the Community

    Great post Annuvin,
    I am glad to still see the devs so involved I know I am mirroring what many others have been saying in this thread but it is nice to know whats going on because for some reason I feel I should be made aware ;-)

    GD is great fyi and I am always... intrigued by the champion and artifact changes. I hope the player base keeps picking up this is a rough issue to overcome I am sure. My friends have played and then complained about queue times and when I respond with "Well just play more and they will go down" they are already in the other game that will not be named. I have pimped my friends on all mediums Im trying to make it happen! I really enjoy the strategy involved with this game and feel like the skill it takes is much more rewarding than other MOBAs.

    If you take anything away from what I have to say make it this > Gascat nerf please and I want to watch the gambits burn in front of their gambit families...

    Yours truly,
    Gottlos

    ( looking for a team :-)

  10. #30
    Creative Director IC_Annuvin's Avatar
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    Re: Letter to the Community

    Thanks for all the replies, everyone! I guess I'll tackle some issues I think I'm hearing (though I know I won't get every single one!):

    Bug Fixes and Timing - We try to stick to a regular cadence (6 weeks, for example) because we are trying to apply best software practices. This often means that even the tiniest fix goes through multiple proofing passes before it becomes outward facing. Now, we do make exceptions (they are what we call hotfixes) but they come at a VERY steep cost: they pull our QA attention away from testing the next major release in order to verify the hotfix. This can pay out in the short term, but it often means the next release really suffers, because it doesn't get the love and attention it would normally get. This isn't to say we won't ever hotfix issues, we just make sure they follow some very specific guidelines. Off the top of my head, those guidelines are: is it causing folks to not be able to play? Do we know how to fix it? Is the fix such a risk to stability that it needs more testing? Anyway, those are some of the things we try to consider before we hotfix anything. I can also say its never a single person's decision! There's a council of little blue people that must be appeased.

    GD vs GH vs CC vs Queue time - As much as I love Fantus and Zag, they are still people. As people, they speak with their own perspective. I'm a person too: so now its my time to give you my perspective. I love all the maps we've made. My goal has been to ensure that each of them occupies a specific average time slot, so folks who want fast a furious action have a map, while others that want more strategic/baked to perfection experiences have their map too. I also feel like each and every map can be competitive... this is a PvP game after all, and team tactics are present in every map (Orbital Cannon, Doomsday Device, Raiders, etc). That said, I know that folks typically have a favorite map. I'm just glad its one of the maps in this game! We never made the decision to push specific maps, we just wanted to keep the combination of ELO based matchmaking and lower queue times. That combined meant that we had to make the decision to remove a map from the rotation simply due to population density. Don't worry! If we keep growing like we are, Coast City will make a triumphant return.

    Balance Testing - Our game is getting more and more complex. Additionally, an ever growing chunk of players is getting better at the game than us. This is wonderful, as I personally love watching people be excellent at things... and very little is better than watching someone play a really good Aquaman/Blue Beetle/Sinestro. Sadly, this means that some of our changes simply can't be as perfect as we would like them to be. All I can really say is that we will continue to get better at this as time goes on! (there was one change that was so imba, we had to roll it back before you all saw it... so trust me when I say the process is getting better!)

    Anyway, I hope that answers some questions/concerns!

 

 

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