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  1. #1
    Protector Wurm_king's Avatar
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    feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    I don't really like the will collector idea on this item. it does not fit with lore and the slow build up was fine for controllers, as was the power damage bonus from will. now power damage tank controllers are now at a disadvantage for power damage if they want to still build armor. and I also think that a support controller should be more concerned with preserving there team mates lives rather then there own but your changes to Abin Surs lantern gives them an incentive to save them selves. I think the best way to fix this is to revert Abin Surs Lantern to how it was before the June patch and create a new item.

    This new item could be Larfleeze's lantern and have the same abilities as Abin Surs does now. It would make more sense from the lore stand point, and allow players to make support controllers not dependent on coins.

  2. #2
    Community Advocate CH4_BrianFantana's Avatar
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    Re: feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    I would have liked it if it was changed to a crime bible/two-face rather than a collectors.
    Formerly Known as Hammerreborn

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  3. #3
    Joining Harmony TeaSeeOh's Avatar
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    Re: feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    Kind of odd. This item by itself is fairly useless. A minor will regen aura will net you very little, especially for the overall price of the item. I suppose they were attempting to increase the viability of Eye of Ekron? However, all they ended up doing was destroying what item synergy there was before..

    Unrelated but I don't really like the new Deadshot's Visor either. I don't know why they stripped the Will Battery passives off these items. Especially when at first glance they seem worse off with the changes.

  4. #4
    Community Advocate CH4_BrianFantana's Avatar
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    Re: feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    Quote Originally Posted by TeaSeeOh View Post
    Kind of odd. This item by itself is fairly useless. A minor will regen aura will net you very little, especially for the overall price of the item. I suppose they were attempting to increase the viability of Eye of Ekron? However, all they ended up doing was destroying what item synergy there was before..

    Unrelated but I don't really like the new Deadshot's Visor either. I don't know why they stripped the Will Battery passives off these items. Especially when at first glance they seem worse off with the changes.
    Oh they are worse. I wasn't able to gain max stats a single time in my matches thus far. Because you know, I play a support and if its me or batman that have to go down. ARCANE GREEN LANTERN THROW DOWN INCOMING
    Formerly Known as Hammerreborn

    Come watch me at my Twitch Stream. I'm a community streamer, and I currently give away free swag every Friday and Sunday nights. Come for the swag, stay for the IC and Comics.

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  5. #5
    Lead Systems Designer IC_DangerDan's Avatar
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    Re: feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    This was mentioned in the patch notes, so I'll repost it here:
    For a while, there were two primary artifacts for champions looking to stack the most Will: Deadshot's Visor and Abin Sur's Lantern.

    You picked one or the other based on the damage stat you preferred. This created awkward tensions where being a better controller necessarily lead you to deal more damage. We've remade Abin Sur's Lantern to make it the premier artifact for building lots and lots of Will by taking off any damage that would bias it for or against specific Controllers.

    At the same time, we took a hard look at the Will Battery keyword. While we liked how it encouraged Controllers toward cooldown reduction, in practice its suitability depended far more on whether a champion's kit had a low cost, spammable skill. We opted to replace this keyword with new one: Will Collector, which follows an established pattern which has already been shown to layer well on our coin mechanic.
    We had two very similar artifacts that did not stack with one another that differed primarily by the type of Damage they dealt. It created the situation that where the best artifact for Will necessarily meant you were also increasing your damage.

    At the same time, the old Abin Sur's Lantern and Dead Shot's Visor gave out very large amounts of Will (about 3 times the next highest Will value). By comparison the best sources of Power Damage and Attack Damage gave out less than 2 times the next highest value. This made the impact of additional sources of Will had little appreciable impact next to these artifacts.

    We wanted to have a single artifact that was the best source of Will which could work for any Controller, regardless of the type of damage they might want to build. We wanted this to be the best source, but not the only source, where the other artifacts you purchase could reinforce a focus on Will or diversify your focus to other stats based on how you wanted to play the specific Champion.

    This opens up the possibility for someone who did not necessarily wish to focus on damage, to allocate their credits toward other stats and other artifacts. The option for damage based on Will remains. There is actually more Will on base artifacts than there was before.

    Previously:
    • Maximum Will from stats on Artifacts was 2150 in 6 slots, 1100 in 3 slots.
    • Keywords added 800 (Will Battery)
    • Abin Sur's Lantern has 1150 Will (350 + 800 Will Battery).

    After the update:
    • Maximum Will from stats on Artifacts is 2250 in 6 slots, 1250 in 3 slots.
    • Keywords add 450 (Will Collector, 675 Will with the Capacity Mod)
    • (Additionally, more Mods exist to add base Will to artifacts.)
    • Abin Sur's Lantern has 900 Will (450 + 450 Collector)... with the Capacity Mod, that gives the new Abin Sur's Lantern a top end of 1125. That means you have only 25 less Will from the new Abin Sur's with the Capacity Mod than you could with Will Battery and get it much faster, more consistently.

    I hope you will give this change a try, look at how to adapt your builds, and play around with different strategies. Most importantly, I hope that you'll let me know what kinds of builds you are trying, both artifacts and amplifiers on which champions.

    I look forward to your posts with lots of details!

  6. #6
    Community Advocate CH4_BrianFantana's Avatar
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    Re: feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_DangerDan View Post
    This was mentioned in the patch notes, so I'll repost it here:


    We had two very similar artifacts that did not stack with one another that differed primarily by the type of Damage they dealt. It created the situation that where the best artifact for Will necessarily meant you were also increasing your damage.

    At the same time, the old Abin Sur's Lantern and Dead Shot's Visor gave out very large amounts of Will (about 3 times the next highest Will value). By comparison the best sources of Power Damage and Attack Damage gave out less than 2 times the next highest value. This made the impact of additional sources of Will had little appreciable impact next to these artifacts.

    We wanted to have a single artifact that was the best source of Will which could work for any Controller, regardless of the type of damage they might want to build. We wanted this to be the best source, but not the only source, where the other artifacts you purchase could reinforce a focus on Will or diversify your focus to other stats based on how you wanted to play the specific Champion.

    This opens up the possibility for someone who did not necessarily wish to focus on damage, to allocate their credits toward other stats and other artifacts. The option for damage based on Will remains. There is actually more Will on base artifacts than there was before.

    Previously:
    • Maximum Will from stats on Artifacts was 2150 in 6 slots, 1100 in 3 slots.
    • Keywords added 800 (Will Battery)
    • Abin Sur's Lantern has 1150 Will (350 + 800 Will Battery).

    After the update:
    • Maximum Will from stats on Artifacts is 2250 in 6 slots, 1250 in 3 slots.
    • Keywords add 450 (Will Collector, 675 Will with the Capacity Mod)
    • (Additionally, more Mods exist to add base Will to artifacts.)
    • Abin Sur's Lantern has 900 Will (450 + 450 Collector)... with the Capacity Mod, that gives the new Abin Sur's Lantern a top end of 1125. That means you have only 25 less Will from the new Abin Sur's with the Capacity Mod than you could with Will Battery and get it much faster, more consistently.

    I hope you will give this change a try, look at how to adapt your builds, and play around with different strategies. Most importantly, I hope that you'll let me know what kinds of builds you are trying, both artifacts and amplifiers on which champions.

    I look forward to your posts with lots of details!
    Except all those calculations only work if you're lucky enough to have enough time to sit around and get 75 stacks of coins while never ever dying ever. Because if you do, you're pretty much never getting them back or reaching this theoretical maximum.

    Also, I find it laughable that you say that the capacity mod gives more will faster with more consistency. Oh look, I have 1125....now I have 621. The only way to have any consistency in your will total is to play contrary to Supports role, to take one for the team if needed to preserve the adcs. I mean hell, look at Arcane, he doesn't come smashing in like the Kool Aid man because he's about to drop SS sized nukes on people. He's a big screw you you're not getting mah buddy middle finger.

    Also, the changes to investment make building controllers....abysmal to say the least. You clearly intend the gambits and gorilla grodd to be supports bread and butter....but you can't upgrade them together AT ALL or risk just throwing away money. Which means you have to sit on piles of gold until you can upgrade one to level 3 and another to level 2 at the same time.

    I seriously don't understand why you didn't just revert to previous levels, rather than nerfing them even lower with the removal of stacking.
    Last edited by hammerreborn; 06-04-2014 at 05:57 PM.
    Formerly Known as Hammerreborn

    Come watch me at my Twitch Stream. I'm a community streamer, and I currently give away free swag every Friday and Sunday nights. Come for the swag, stay for the IC and Comics.

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  7. #7
    Lead Systems Designer IC_DangerDan's Avatar
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    Re: feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    Quote Originally Posted by hammerreborn View Post
    Except all those calculations only work if you're lucky enough to have enough time to sit around and get 75 stacks of coins while never ever dying ever. Because if you do, you're pretty much never getting them back or reaching this theoretical maximum.
    Only 450 Will (or 675 Will with Capacity Mod) depend on building Will Collector stacks. You can now get more Will without depending on any keywords than you could before and you can increase that even further if you choose to add Max Will mods. For example, you can add +150 Will to Gorilla Grodd's Helmet with a Mod, raising its Tier 3 to 450 Will and its Tier 4 to 550.

    Quote Originally Posted by hammerreborn View Post
    Also, I find it laughable that you say that the capacity mod gives more will faster with more consistency. Oh look, I have 1125....now I have 621.
    I suppose it depends on what you mean by consistency. I know what I meant was that we wanted to give all Controllers a consistent pace for building Max Will stacks independent of whether or not they had spam-able skills with short cooldowns. You seem to be concerned with the risk of losing stacks on death, which is a legitimate concern, but you also have options there. If you want to get the very highest stats, you can pick a Capacity Mod and assume a greater risk. If you want to be able to build stacks faster, you can pick an Accelerated Mod.


    I hope you will give the changes a try and I really hope that you post back with the Champion, Amplifiers, & Artifacts that you are trying out.

  8. #8
    Community Advocate CH4_BrianFantana's Avatar
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    Re: feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_DangerDan View Post
    Only 450 Will (or 675 Will with Capacity Mod) depend on building Will Collector stacks. You can now get more Will without depending on any keywords than you could before and you can increase that even further if you choose to add Max Will mods. For example, you can add +150 Will to Gorilla Grodd's Helmet with a Mod, raising its Tier 3 to 450 Will and its Tier 4 to 550.



    I suppose it depends on what you mean by consistency. I know what I meant was that we wanted to give all Controllers a consistent pace for building Max Will stacks independent of whether or not they had spam-able skills with short cooldowns. You seem to be concerned with the risk of losing stacks on death, which is a legitimate concern, but you also have options there. If you want to get the very highest stats, you can pick a Capacity Mod and assume a greater risk. If you want to be able to build stacks faster, you can pick an Accelerated Mod.


    I hope you will give the changes a try and I really hope that you post back with the Champion, Amplifiers, & Artifacts that you are trying out.
    twitch.tv/hammerreborn

    I'll be trying them all night. I'm really having trouble finding a build order with so many tier 2 investment blocks though


    Right now it seems Oa 2, potions 3, lantern 2, oa 3 AND grodd 2, oa 4, grodd 3 AND qward 2, grodd 4, EoE 1-4, lantern 3-4, qward 4.

    And then if theres time a 6th item, probably whatever armor will help the most

    Amps capacity, improved oa/qward until I get improved will force for EoE
    Last edited by hammerreborn; 06-04-2014 at 06:19 PM.
    Formerly Known as Hammerreborn

    Come watch me at my Twitch Stream. I'm a community streamer, and I currently give away free swag every Friday and Sunday nights. Come for the swag, stay for the IC and Comics.

    You can see up to date updates about times and giveaways and other events at my thread found here.

    You stay classy Ron Burgandy

  9. #9
    Lead Systems Designer IC_DangerDan's Avatar
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    Re: feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    Quote Originally Posted by hammerreborn View Post
    twitch.tv/hammerreborn

    I'll be trying them all night. I'm really having trouble finding a build order with so many tier 2 investment blocks though


    Right now it seems Oa 2, potions 3, lantern 2, oa 3 AND grodd 2, oa 4, grodd 3 AND qward 2, grodd 4, EoE 1-4, lantern 3-4, qward 4.

    And then if theres time a 6th item, probably whatever armor will help the most

    Amps capacity, improved oa/qward until I get improved will force for EoE
    I'm watching now. Congrats on the win.

    I'm curious if an Accelerated Will Collector would be less risky? Then again, I saw you managed 90 stacks at a couple of points.

    Which improved are you running? The Resonant Mods that improve auras?

  10. #10
    Community Advocate CH4_BrianFantana's Avatar
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    Re: feedback on Abin Surs Lantern Changes (Post june Patch)

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_DangerDan View Post
    I'm watching now. Congrats on the win.

    I'm curious if an Accelerated Will Collector would be less risky? Then again, I saw you managed 90 stacks at a couple of points.

    Which improved are you running? The Resonant Mods that improve auras?
    Yes, both improved auras. Improved Oa will probably be dropped for EoE and deadshot mods for Harley.
    Formerly Known as Hammerreborn

    Come watch me at my Twitch Stream. I'm a community streamer, and I currently give away free swag every Friday and Sunday nights. Come for the swag, stay for the IC and Comics.

    You can see up to date updates about times and giveaways and other events at my thread found here.

    You stay classy Ron Burgandy

 

 

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