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  1. #1
    Providing Harmony KoH_David's Avatar
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    [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    Nightmare Scarecrow

    Role: Enforcer
    Melee

    Passive- Essence of Shadow: Nightmare Scarecrow creates an immobile clone behind him when standing in a radius he creates that grants him X attack and power armor after X seconds. Taking damage and dealing damage increase how fast the clone is created. The clone lasts as long as Nightmare Scarecrow is in combat or until it dies. Moving X range during the clones creation process or after it is created will cause it the clone to be destroyed.

    The Clones attack nearby enemies in melee range.

    Q- Chill Front: Nightmare Scarecrow and his clone become untargetable as they fire a skillshot, slowing all enemies hit by X and dealing X (+PD) power damage. The skillshot returns to it’s original casting location when reaching max range and enemies hit twice only take half the damage and are not slowed a second time.

    W- Cold Core: Nightmare Scarecrow pulls all enemies towards him dealing X (+XPD) power damage. If casting his q, all targets close to his skillshot are pulled towards it instead.

    E- Doppelganger: If cast on an ally, the clone moves to said ally and grants them a shield that absorbs for X (+health) damage for X seconds. If cast on an enemy, the clone heals Nightmare Scarecrow for a portion of the damage dealt to the target by his clones and abilities.

    R- Mist Form: Nightmare Scarecrow transforms into a Gas Monser for X seconds, fearing all targets around him for X seconds, creating two clones behind him, and his auto attacks deal X (+XPD) power damage. At the end of the duration all targets are feared again.

    Chill Front gets an increase width during Mist Form.

    Here is a drawing that Epoch told me artist people do to help give people a idea on what the abilities looks like and etc. Aka I used paint and can't draw.
    http://i.imgur.com/pAq70qU.jpg

    Here are some additional ideas I had with the kit that did not make it through because I am not sure if it would make him too strong.

    1. His clones being able to use Cold Core when it is cast.

    2. Make Doppelganger a target area skill instead of a target enemy/ally ability.

    Let me know what you think about the kit. Would you play this champion? What improvements, if any, do you think this design needs?

    credit:
    Volandum for the spell names
    Last edited by KoH_David; 08-10-2014 at 10:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Providing Harmony KoH_David's Avatar
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    Re: [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    I still need to write lore for him, but I suck at that. Someone good at lore pls.

  3. #3

    Re: [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    i really like this concept, it seems very interesting. but in reality, it's the artwork that makes this champion come to life.

  4. #4
    Providing Harmony KoH_David's Avatar
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    Re: [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    Quote Originally Posted by kyro291 View Post
    i really like this concept, it seems very interesting. but in reality, it's the artwork that makes this champion come to life.
    Best artist NA.

    edit: I added some info on some stuff I wanted to do with the kit, but didn't in fear that it would be over kill. Some feedback on those ideas would be nice.
    Last edited by KoH_David; 06-22-2014 at 01:27 PM.

  5. #5

    Re: [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    I will be referencing information I got from these sources:

    http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Scarecrow_(Earth-43)

    http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Jonathan_Crane_(Earth-43)

    Here it states that Batman had actually killed Scarecrow using his own scythe to decapitate him. So here is my idea for Nightcrow's(?) lore based on the kit you have provided:

    Scarecrow's fear toxin is gaseous in form so I think that Nightmare Scarecrow is actually composed of his own fear toxin, the vials he carried was crushed in some way, perhaps during Nightbat's egress from the scene, releasing the toxin into the air. While Jonathan Crane was dead, his spirit was unsatisfied, having felt like he was prevented from enacting the revenge he longed for. Looking for a new form to take, he imposes his will on the released gas, coalescing it into a new "body." Gas normally isn't solid of course but it is Scarecrow's spirit that keeps it together and serviceably corporeal. He takes up his mask from his severed head and forms armor out of materials lying nearby (for maximum spook I was thinking that this event could take place in a graveyard and his vials were crushed by a fallen gravestone, this gravestone providing the material he would use for the armor but I do not have access to the source material at this time so it might clash). He also takes up his sickle once again, this being the source of his basic attacks.

    The major aspect of Scarecrow of course is the hallucinations caused by the fear toxin. In his new ghostly form he no longer has to rely on having people ingest the compound to hallucinate, he can create illusions for them himself by imposing his supernatural will. This is the source of the clones described in the kit. In this new form he has made for himself he seeks to continue his campaign for revenge, not just on the jocks who had bullied him in school but on batman himself for getting in his way.

    That's what I got, hopefully it is line with your vision of the character. Now on to the kit analysis.

    I have a question on the Q, does both the clone and Nightcrow go to the same target or does the clone move in parallel? Otherwise it seems like a cool ability with the potential of peeling multiple targets along the same line. Cool.

    W also seems like a good peeling ability, and perhaps a way to bring people in range of the clone's attacks.

    I think the E should be the skill that provides the majority of the clone's mobility. If they cannot move normally but are also melee and dissipate if Nightcrow gets too far, then they need some way to move around at a decent rate otherwise it seems to me it might not feel so great to get a clone out if people can easily get out of its way.

    Overall the ult is cool, I like the fear aspect of it, although if its going to fear twice the scaling should probably be like .50 seconds per stack (and not scale per level) otherwise it seems like a lot of cc stacked on one move. There might be some logistical problems with having two clones out, if doppleganger can be used once for each clone which one is used first? How is that determined? Unless the clones look visually different somehow and you can determine which one goes first that way. It just seems to be that whatever the solution to that is it will seem unintuitive at best.

    I think that the clone's shouldn't proc the w, it should be up to the player to position properly and be able to use that move to bring enemies into range of the clones, making for more interesting gameplay (do I use this to peel? do I use this to bring people in to damage them? try to position in a way where I can accomplish both?). I agree with the notion that the E should be a sort of skillshot type deal, ala SS Q. The clone can move to the target location and attack enemies nearby, healing a nearby ally for any damage dealt, priority given to lower health allies (either % or just numerically) if there is more than one nearby. This could be communicated by an buff given to the clone upon use of the E for X amount of seconds. Perhaps the buff also provides an attack range increase so its easier for it to reach passing enemies.

    That's just some quick thoughts I had on the matter, let me know what you think.

  6. #6
    Providing Harmony KoH_David's Avatar
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    Re: [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    I will be referencing information I got from these sources:

    http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Scarecrow_(Earth-43)

    http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Jonathan_Crane_(Earth-43)

    Here it states that Batman had actually killed Scarecrow using his own scythe to decapitate him. So here is my idea for Nightcrow's(?) lore based on the kit you have provided:

    Scarecrow's fear toxin is gaseous in form so I think that Nightmare Scarecrow is actually composed of his own fear toxin, the vials he carried was crushed in some way, perhaps during Nightbat's egress from the scene, releasing the toxin into the air. While Jonathan Crane was dead, his spirit was unsatisfied, having felt like he was prevented from enacting the revenge he longed for. Looking for a new form to take, he imposes his will on the released gas, coalescing it into a new "body." Gas normally isn't solid of course but it is Scarecrow's spirit that keeps it together and serviceably corporeal. He takes up his mask from his severed head and forms armor out of materials lying nearby (for maximum spook I was thinking that this event could take place in a graveyard and his vials were crushed by a fallen gravestone, this gravestone providing the material he would use for the armor but I do not have access to the source material at this time so it might clash). He also takes up his sickle once again, this being the source of his basic attacks.

    The major aspect of Scarecrow of course is the hallucinations caused by the fear toxin. In his new ghostly form he no longer has to rely on having people ingest the compound to hallucinate, he can create illusions for them himself by imposing his supernatural will. This is the source of the clones described in the kit. In this new form he has made for himself he seeks to continue his campaign for revenge, not just on the jocks who had bullied him in school but on batman himself for getting in his way.

    That's what I got, hopefully it is line with your vision of the character. Now on to the kit analysis.
    I did not know that Scarecrow died in earth 43. My vision of the character was to have some kinda of tech keep the gas in it's shape and what not, but your idea works too. I also like the idea from his basic attack.

    I have a question on the Q, does both the clone and Nightcrow go to the same target or does the clone move in parallel? Otherwise it seems like a cool ability with the potential of peeling multiple targets along the same line. Cool.
    Q Is parallel.

    W also seems like a good peeling ability, and perhaps a way to bring people in range of the clone's attacks.
    It can also be a very strong engage or disengage tool when you combo it with your Q and time it right.

    I think the E should be the skill that provides the majority of the clone's mobility. If they cannot move normally but are also melee and dissipate if Nightcrow gets too far, then they need some way to move around at a decent rate otherwise it seems to me it might not feel so great to get a clone out if people can easily get out of its way.
    Well I mean I could make it so it can follow the target it's "Attached to" for X seconds and/or I can always rework the clones to just follow you instead of not being able to move. The problem I have with making his E a target area skill is I feel the gameplay behind his E being like that might be a little too similar in how it feels to use SS Q. Granted his E would need a higher cooldown then SS Q and they both do still serve different purposes.

    Overall the ult is cool, I like the fear aspect of it, although if its going to fear twice the scaling should probably be like .50 seconds per stack (and not scale per level) otherwise it seems like a lot of cc stacked on one move. There might be some logistical problems with having two clones out, if doppleganger can be used once for each clone which one is used first? How is that determined? Unless the clones look visually different somehow and you can determine which one goes first that way. It just seems to be that whatever the solution to that is it will seem unintuitive at best.
    I originally only had it fear at the start, but felt the fear stack mechanic would feel very underwhelming without the second fear proc. The fear duration would be small though. As for showing which clone would be used first there are a number of options to address that. One can be to have them both have a somewhat different appearance like you mention or just have a circle or something around the clone that is going to be used next for his E.

    I think that the clone's shouldn't proc the w, it should be up to the player to position properly and be able to use that move to bring enemies into range of the clones, making for more interesting gameplay (do I use this to peel? do I use this to bring people in to damage them? try to position in a way where I can accomplish both?). I agree with the notion that the E should be a sort of skillshot type deal, ala SS Q. The clone can move to the target location and attack enemies nearby, healing a nearby ally for any damage dealt, priority given to lower health allies (either % or just numerically) if there is more than one nearby. This could be communicated by an buff given to the clone upon use of the E for X amount of seconds. Perhaps the buff also provides an attack range increase so its easier for it to reach passing enemies.
    Well the reason I had the clones be able to use his W before i removed it is because the combos seems really interesting when you think about it. That said I think it would be too strong in a situation where you E a ally, then Q towards a nearby enemy, and then W while the clone is returning to it's original position. With that said that sounds like it would be too strong, even if it does take 3 skills to do it.

  7. #7
    Joining Harmony KoH_Genericke's Avatar
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    Re: [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    Rewording this in a way that boils it down to its functions so it’s easier to understand. Taking a lot of fluff away.

    Passive: Nightmare Scarecrow creates an immobile clone that redirects a portion of the damage Nightmare Scarecrow takes to himself. The clone lasts as long as Nightmare Scarecrow is in combat or until it dies. If Nightmare Scarecrow walks a certain distance from the clone, he is healed.

    Q: Nightmare Scarecrow and his clone become untargetteable as they fire a skillshot, slowing all enemies hit. The skillshot returns to them.

    W: Nightmare Scarecrow pulls all enemies towards him. If casting his q, all targets close to his skillshot are pulled towards it instead.

    E: If cast on an ally, the clone moves to said ally and redirects a portion of the damage they take to itself. If cast on an enemy, the clone heals Nightmare Scarecrow for a portion of the damage dealt to the target.

    R: Nightmare Scarecrow fears all targets around him and his autoattacks do increased damage for a short duration. At the end of the duration all targets are feared again.

  8. #8
    Joining Harmony KoH_Genericke's Avatar
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    Re: [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    Alright here are my thoughts on the concept overall.

    You REALLY need to be careful with that kind of a tank passive. How big is Nightmare Scarecrow’s model? Even if the model is small, creating another target on the battlefield is really ****** because it makes skillshots MUCH harder to land on backline targets. It’s why Star Sapphire feels so untoucheable. The combination of her bonds of love and root is pretty nasty, but her predator can also be used to intercept skillshots.

    Additionally, %damage reductions are something you need to be careful with. They’re really strong, but they don’t really read that well in a way that their power is obvious. They’re hard to see. For example in LoL Sona was bugged where her passive w didn’t reduce any incoming damage despite the tooltip saying so. No one noticed. At the same time champions like Gragas and Maokai are way too tanky with only a 20% damage reduction.

    With IC, Steele’s breastplate was OP, because it pretty much gave will champs that bought it permanent 20% damage reduction (as long as they had will, which they did because 1k will from deadshots/abin sur’s OP). It was literally the only tank item they needed to buy to become unkillable.

    Wonder Woman’s only tank steroids are her shield, and her passive heal. These are enough for her that if she builds tanky she doesn’t die. The untargetteability granted by his q, as well as his clone’s ability to block skillshots, and its healing ability is all he needs to be tanky enough to survive just as well as any other enforcer. I actually think he wouldn’t even need the heal or the untarggetability and he’d be fine.

    That being said, with his e I feel as though it could grant the target a shield much like Wonder Woman’s w instead of %damage reduction. It’ll be a lot easier to see the power of the skill, and having a clone standing in front of an ally to intercept skillshots and autoattack/fire a slowing q/draw targets in with w is a TONNE of peel.

    I don’t like his e healing him based off of how much damage a target takes. I like the idea of sending a clone onto a target and granting them mobility through this ability. By putting a target right in front of them life gets hard. He doesn’t need to heal off them. Additionally the amount he has dependent on damage taken can really swing how much he heals in a bad way.

    With the q, I’m unsure if the untargettebility is a good idea. I’m convinced that the clone itself might be enough for Gaslight Scarecrow’s tankiness that he wouldn’t need this mechanic. Untargettebility is also a frustrating as **** mechanic to play against. As GH players, we ALL hated Flash’s bull**** ultimate. CC skills are in short supply, and dodging them is extremely impactful. Giving someone untargettebility is really strong.
    His w is fine and I like the idea of it being tied to his q.

    The marks of fear on his ultimate are an unnecessary mechanic for people to keep track of. Just make it so he fears people in an AoE around them. The additional power granted by having 2 more clones, their possible uses with e, and the attack steroid are good enough. He doesn’t need to fear them again a second time after his ult is done.

  9. #9
    Protector Wurm_king's Avatar
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    Re: [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    its an interesting build, I agree that you need to tone down your damage negation. for your Q maybe instead its a skill shot and enemies hit are feared, since he is made of fear gas.

    and if you want you can use the lore from my nightmare scarecrow idea found here: https://www.infinitecrisis.com/forum...tmare+scarcrow


    also why does he look like the ghost character from Ben 10, was that intentional?

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    Re: [Champion Concept] Nightmare Scarecrow

    How about, his clones cannot move as per usual unless using abilities and such as is, then when his ult is activated this allows all clones to move and follow him?

 

 

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