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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Match Making - The Horror

    I am by no means a pro gamer - i am only a mere level 29 toon. In addition, this is my first MOBA style game but i love it.
    The learning curve was and is still steep. There are many variables, characters and their skills/roles, items, and of course mods and augments.
    This being said, the basic idea of the game is fairly simple - king of the hill. Team work - you get 3 points and you defend 3 points then you profit.
    Yet more than 80% or 90% of the players cannot seem to solve this mystery.

    At this point this probably sounds like a rant - and it is partially. Trust me i have raged more often than not on my teammates (destructive, yes i know but i cannot help it). Now, as simple as the concept of King of the Hill is, I do not necessary believe it is remotely players' fault to not know how to play the game. I believe the match making is a fault here. I want to know how what is the current Match Making rules or logic.


    There seems to be a big gap in skill and the current match making logic does not seem to take that into account.
    If you are less skilled and you get paired with more skilled group and the gap in skill is significant, it is not fun for anyone.
    The less skilled person(s) will "usually" get some form of harassment (i know i have dished and taken my fair share).
    The more skilled person(s) will be on the verge of having a stroke or heart attack out of pure frustration.
    Either way this is not fun and a game that is not fun will not encourage more players to join the community. Of course "FUN" is objective.

    Of course on the flip side one can argue, the more skilled players should teach the less skilled. Perhaps! If you are into that sort of things I thank you for your service, but when I play i tend to want to play the game and not spent time teaching - and the times i have tried to teach it was a lost effort.
    I also feel it is up to the game to create as steady as possible learning curve and not a spike. By the time a player levels from 1 to 29 and is now grouped with more skilled players their understanding of the game should be fairly even.

    While this is partially a rant, this is also a plea to both the developers and community to come up with ideas and suggestions to improve the match making which has a cascading effect of improving gaming experience.

    - Bubbes

  2. #2

    Re: Match Making - The Horror

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbes View Post
    I am by no means a pro gamer - i am only a mere level 29 toon. In addition, this is my first MOBA style game but i love it.
    The learning curve was and is still steep. There are many variables, characters and their skills/roles, items, and of course mods and augments.
    This being said, the basic idea of the game is fairly simple - king of the hill. Team work - you get 3 points and you defend 3 points then you profit.
    Yet more than 80% or 90% of the players cannot seem to solve this mystery.

    At this point this probably sounds like a rant - and it is partially. Trust me i have raged more often than not on my teammates (destructive, yes i know but i cannot help it). Now, as simple as the concept of King of the Hill is, I do not necessary believe it is remotely players' fault to not know how to play the game. I believe the match making is a fault here. I want to know how what is the current Match Making rules or logic.


    There seems to be a big gap in skill and the current match making logic does not seem to take that into account.
    If you are less skilled and you get paired with more skilled group and the gap in skill is significant, it is not fun for anyone.
    The less skilled person(s) will "usually" get some form of harassment (i know i have dished and taken my fair share).
    The more skilled person(s) will be on the verge of having a stroke or heart attack out of pure frustration.
    Either way this is not fun and a game that is not fun will not encourage more players to join the community. Of course "FUN" is objective.

    Of course on the flip side one can argue, the more skilled players should teach the less skilled. Perhaps! If you are into that sort of things I thank you for your service, but when I play i tend to want to play the game and not spent time teaching - and the times i have tried to teach it was a lost effort.
    I also feel it is up to the game to create as steady as possible learning curve and not a spike. By the time a player levels from 1 to 29 and is now grouped with more skilled players their understanding of the game should be fairly even.

    While this is partially a rant, this is also a plea to both the developers and community to come up with ideas and suggestions to improve the match making which has a cascading effect of improving gaming experience.

    - Bubbes
    unfortunately there are only 2 options

    A : Matches are well balanced, queue takes from 10 to 30 minutes because it has to wait for 10 people of similar level to queue up

    B : Matches are lopsided and queue time is (usually) under 10 minutes, who wins the match is determined more by "who has the biggest ******" than "who has the best player"

  3. #3

    Re: Match Making - The Horror

    Well, im level 50 and some of the things you're saying still happen (and constantly)... things like the double xp made possible for players with level 20 to become level 35 or similar, and obviously that has an effect on the real experience and the matchmaking, and with the lack of real tutorials there are important things who people maybe dont learn even in high levels. But i have to say that sometimes people just need a leader or support, and sometimes the player with apparently "more skills" is not really a good player; if this was a shooter or some more individualist game this player could be good, but this game is about teamwork and support... if the player who has more kills is being a bully or not helping his/her own team (in some strange occasions maybe even the other team), then by no means he/she is a good player...so, the most important lesson to have fun and be competitive in a fair way: be a leader, not a bully

  4. #4
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    Re: Match Making - The Horror

    It may be King of the Hill in theory but there are some missing pieces to the puzzle. If your team cannot hold 3 points. If your team cannot hold 2 points. If the other team feeds so well you can't get out of base camp. Do you go fight over the Orbital Cannon with only 2 points in GH? I've been told if you don't hold 3 points skip the OC but others claim the OC fight is worth it. What do you cap, stay away from, hang out with when the game is down to 20 to 15 points?

    It's not so simple that it's clear to everyone what to do in these cases. If you aren't in a pre-made and working together all the time to know how your team is going to respond it's pretty hard to get it right just on instinct.

    As far as the match maker, it's really weird. I play a few rounds each day and DayN I will win 3 matches DayN+1 I will lose 3 matches it seems to rotate back and forth pretty steady. I don't think this is good match making at all. But they say they are working on it and it's WAI atm.
    "C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre. C'est de la folie."
    ("It is magnificent, but it is not war. It is madness.")

    ~ French Marshal Pierre Bosquet ~

  5. #5
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    Re: Match Making - The Horror

    Quote Originally Posted by Malamen View Post
    Well, im level 50 and some of the things you're saying still happen (and constantly)... things like the double xp made possible for players with level 20 to become level 35 or similar, and obviously that has an effect on the real experience and the matchmaking, and with the lack of real tutorials there are important things who people maybe dont learn even in high levels. But i have to say that sometimes people just need a leader or support, and sometimes the player with apparently "more skills" is not really a good player; if this was a shooter or some more individualist game this player could be good, but this game is about teamwork and support... if the player who has more kills is being a bully or not helping his/her own team (in some strange occasions maybe even the other team), then by no means he/she is a good player...so, the most important lesson to have fun and be competitive in a fair way: be a leader, not a bully
    How can a ¨skilled player¨ fight 1v2, win, retreat to base because eh, i think he may be exhausted after 1v2 and be blamed for not staying longer, when his team gets killed 4v3.

    As a top tier GH player (probably the best at the moment) I don't expect anything from my team, and neither should you, part of being good is having an incredible map awareness, and some things will come with time, it's not even about helping your team or not, when you get to the skill level: ¨Neo in the matrix¨ - You stop looking the game as ¨me plus 4 people¨ the whole 5 is you.. you are the entire team, and that's how everyone should see any so called ¨MOBA¨ because Balance is made for 5v5 games, i'm sick and tired of people thinking that ¨Champion Balance¨ means ¨All the champions should be able to 1v1 each other¨ *WRONG* My point is, if your team has no idea what to do, it doesn't matter how good you are, they don't see what you see, the most famous and typical thing that everyone has encountered when trying to help a teammate is:

    You check the minimap you see someone in trouble, you go and try to aid them (if you're close enough) from a speed pad after killing 1 or 2 people and when you do, the guy just turns around and starts fighting with 2% health and dies, because ¨Oh my friends are here, let's get back in!!¨ This happens all the time, also people just wander around in places that they should never be from the get go, there's nothing a ¨skilled player¨ can do if you're at the wrong place at the wrong time and you blame ¨That player that always win vs me¨ because you're getting killed.
    From a real psychological way, the bully is YOU actually, because you're demanding and abusing someone whom you know is good and everyone blames him because he's ¨Selfish and has no teamwork¨. The irony is killing me...

    Gotham Heights it's NOT i repeat NOT an objective based map, doing ninja caps on towers, or camping (standing on them all the game) won't win the game, i'm not saying you never should do this, in some occasions you must do that, but you simply have to learn your limits, as a good player i can hold vs 2 on a tower, with any champion at this point, and vs any champion (unless the 2 guys sieging the tower are 2 players with the same skills as me, but that's a no at this point, there are no good players whatsoever) But if you're getting too low and no one is coming, just drop it, it's not worth it; don't give a kill and an assist to hold a point for.. what? 2,3 more seconds? you will take like 25 to re-spawn... anyone.. Math??

    GH is a map based on domination (isn't this map called ¨Dominion¨ in League?), you must have a top notch map awareness and know exactly what's going on, thats why playes like me NEVER get cought on the jungle vs 3 or 4, unless they are alt tabbing, because you know where they are/could be, even if the fog never showed them.

    My point is, This game as it is for now has no real gaming people, i could give you a list of lvl 50+ players that have no idea what they're doing and are not improving in any significant or any way at all for that matter, now You know why this is? and that's why i said you ¨Shouldn't expect anything from a random team¨ because right now the player base is made of regular people who don't even play games, they are just here because they want to use Superman or Batman, touch them, move them around throw a batarang and be like ¨i'm batman!!¨ (or any champion that they like).

    With this said you simply shouldn't get angry at them, if you lower your expectations you'll start to just focus on the game overall, do the best you can and yeah, you will lose 50% of the games as a comment above me said, but you should expect that, there are plenty of trolls and angry people, who have messed up concepts in their heads and really like to abuse and manhandle the good player on the team, because deep inside everyone thinks they're very good.. but they never got the chance to play on a decent team, ergo when you show up and you do good but they don't and the game slowly but surely starts turning into a loss, they will rage because: ¨I'm good... i know i am!! and if i'm losing with this top player is HIS fault, He's not giving his 100%, he's being selfish and not helping me¨ Do you realize who's the ¨Bully¨ and who's abusing who? All i've said about players is based on psychological aspects, don't take it from me, do your research.

    I can count with my fingers the only players who have a high understanding of the game, the biggest joke is that i've seen players who are real gaming people come here, play until lvl 20 and they are 10 times better than ANY of those who mass games and are lvl 50+, but they leave because what's the point on being the only one who has an understanding of the game? even if they didn't got to a very high tier, they have common sense, and they can press TAB each 1 or 2minutes to check everyone's build and know who you're gonna be more useful against and who you should ignore Something too hard to achieve by most of the player base right now.

    Conclusion? Try to have fun, and we'll see what happens in the future, i don't expect to encounter any new good players until the end of this year.
    Last edited by RealName; 07-19-2014 at 02:46 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Match Making - The Horror

    I don't have many problems on GH, probably the worst one is the group thing when people solo but their enemy have 4 people who know each other and can fight as a team where as the people that are alone ant do much because most people in GH aren't willing to listen to advice or simply troll you or they don't talk so I gave up on that and try not to queue solo and find at least a duo or 3 people before queue and the bully stuff well mobas haven't been the nicest community, you fail to meet the expectations of anyone and your a "bad player". Certainly if you want to know your good ask a friend or ask yourself, its best not to look for the opinion of a random player or a stranger on the internet

  7. #7
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    Re: Match Making - The Horror

    Quote Originally Posted by spaceback View Post
    I don't have many problems on GH, probably the worst one is the group thing when people solo but their enemy have 4 people who know each other and can fight as a team where as the people that are alone ant do much because most people in GH aren't willing to listen to advice or simply troll you or they don't talk so I gave up on that and try not to queue solo and find at least a duo or 3 people before queue and the bully stuff well mobas haven't been the nicest community, you fail to meet the expectations of anyone and your a "bad player". Certainly if you want to know your good ask a friend or ask yourself, its best not to look for the opinion of a random player or a stranger on the internet
    Well there's no way to talk really. You have to type REALLY fast and I don't type fast enough... So there's not much talk going to happen unless IC gets in game audio chat for teams and then - well we don't all speak the same language and even between English speakers it's not the same language. Kind of a problem that only gets solved if you are on a pre-made perma team with 3d party audio system.
    "C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre. C'est de la folie."
    ("It is magnificent, but it is not war. It is madness.")

    ~ French Marshal Pierre Bosquet ~

  8. #8
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    Re: Match Making - The Horror

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
    Well there's no way to talk really. You have to type REALLY fast and I don't type fast enough... So there's not much talk going to happen unless IC gets in game audio chat for teams and then - well we don't all speak the same language and even between English speakers it's not the same language. Kind of a problem that only gets solved if you are on a pre-made perma team with 3d party audio system.
    To be fair you don't even need ¨ 3d party audio system¨ for any map, if anything it takes away a bit of your map perception/awareness because you can't focus 100% on the minimap and the game while also speaking, imagine playing a Stacraft game while talking, even if you're talking about the game you can't multitask so much, i mean you can.. but you'll lose somewhere around 20% of sharpness.

    As typing goes, it links to what i just said, you don't need detailed communication, if someone says ¨hey i'm ganking bot just attack and make him think he can kill you¨ and you're right there waiting, and your teammate just keeps moving back and forward ala GD lane phase, you keep losing time and by the time you go and attack because you can't take his incompetence anymore (plus you need the point and you WILL get it, it's just nicer to get a Kill + the point) he's backing out to get the health relic with his 90% health bar and then the enemy obviously flees is what makes it underwhelming, any player shouldn't even need to be babysitted into ¨hey i'm ganking buddy, just attack¨ but if even when you do so, they don't do anything, or they say ¨Fine, you want bot? take it¨ and leave you alone That's when you know you're on a kindergarten.

    People who don't speak are fine, but someone who can't listen to something super polite and team oriented.. I simply don't know what are they thinking about, even if you don't speak english at all it's quite obvious a Red ping on someone's head with your champion screaming ¨ATTACK¨ which is what they do, has to be enough...

  9. #9
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    Re: Match Making - The Horror

    Quote Originally Posted by RealName View Post
    To be fair you don't even need ¨ 3d party audio system¨ for any map, if anything it takes away a bit of your map perception/awareness because you can't focus 100% on the minimap and the game while also speaking, imagine playing a Stacraft game while talking, even if you're talking about the game you can't multitask so much, i mean you can.. but you'll lose somewhere around 20% of sharpness.

    As typing goes, it links to what i just said, you don't need detailed communication, if someone says ¨hey i'm ganking bot just attack and make him think he can kill you¨ and you're right there waiting, and your teammate just keeps moving back and forward ala GD lane phase, you keep losing time and by the time you go and attack because you can't take his incompetence anymore (plus you need the point and you WILL get it, it's just nicer to get a Kill + the point) he's backing out to get the health relic with his 90% health bar and then the enemy obviously flees is what makes it underwhelming, any player shouldn't even need to be babysitted into ¨hey i'm ganking buddy, just attack¨ but if even when you do so, they don't do anything, or they say ¨Fine, you want bot? take it¨ and leave you alone That's when you know you're on a kindergarten.

    People who don't speak are fine, but someone who can't listen to something super polite and team oriented.. I simply don't know what are they thinking about, even if you don't speak english at all it's quite obvious a Red ping on someone's head with your champion screaming ¨ATTACK¨ which is what they do, has to be enough...

    You know that what you said if fine IF you you already know the strategy. For a noob like myself I do not. I wouldn't know what half of what you wrote means on any map.

    If an experienced player wants to give tips and help to noobs, one of the problems is that there's not enough time at the start or during the match to explain things. Having more time at the start to sort things out just delays the game though and for experienced players just wastes game time.

    Not sure there's any solution except to allow a self-selected tier of "non-ranked play" that ranked/pro/semi-pro cannot enter that has a slower game pace to it. But the game isn't there yet.
    "C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre. C'est de la folie."
    ("It is magnificent, but it is not war. It is madness.")

    ~ French Marshal Pierre Bosquet ~

  10. #10
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    Re: Match Making - The Horror

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbes View Post
    I am by no means a pro gamer - i am only a mere level 29 toon. In addition, this is my first MOBA style game but i love it.
    The learning curve was and is still steep. There are many variables, characters and their skills/roles, items, and of course mods and augments.
    This being said, the basic idea of the game is fairly simple - king of the hill. Team work - you get 3 points and you defend 3 points then you profit.
    Yet more than 80% or 90% of the players cannot seem to solve this mystery.

    - Bubbes
    I don't think you have either. Try David's guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
    You know that what you said if fine IF you you already know the strategy. For a noob like myself I do not. I wouldn't know what half of what you wrote means on any map.
    What would you like to know? You would be much more convincing speaking from a position of past rather than present ignorance. We can answer questions here, we can't make IC policy. I see you trying to change the latter more than inform yourself.
    Last edited by Volandum; 07-20-2014 at 02:19 AM.

 

 

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