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  1. #11
    One With Starro Paradigm's Avatar
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    Re: Can we please fix Flash?!

    Early on in the whole "Flash is OP" phase on the forums I suggested that they only have on-hit effects activate on the first hit of the W, so I agree completely with that. I support the Q+E interaction in a balance standpoint as well as lore. The issue is that his design is just not good for GD because he can't jungle well and his laning is baa~d.

  2. #12
    One With Starro Xoulrath's Avatar
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    Re: Can we please fix Flash?!

    I disagree with him not being able to jungle well. OK, maybe not well, but adequately enough to hit 6, build, and then become an efficient ganker.

    Now, admittedly, I haven't played him on GD since my return to the game. I've only played a handful of times on GD and had lackluster experiences with players surrendering after the first tower went down and surrender was available. So I just stopped playing GD altogether.

    With that said, Flash doesn't really feel different to me on GH, and I don't believe that he would feel different to me on GD. Obviously the Stolens you take are different between the two maps, as are the starting items. I feel as though Flash's only real problems in the jungle are: 1) Being susceptible to an early counter-jungle; and 2) Requiring more assisstance than other junglers early-game.

    As far as laning goes, I've never particularly thought that he could lane well. At least not before hitting his power curve. It could be done pre-nerf, but it wasn't what I would call worth it. Now, he can't do it at all.

    As far as his skills go, his W is actually in a good spot right now. He just needs on-hit effects back. His Q needs to either have more base damage at each level to help his early-game presence; or it needs to scale higher than it does now to boost his late-game. Perhaps another 2.5% drop down to 15% scaling on his W to balance the added power from Q and the on-hit effects would be necessary.
    V3G3TA: "Im pretty confident about my member...probly why I use Ham, and focus on the W, not the kdr...big guy thrwin his meat around sayin stuff. one really understands...with hair fom the 80 s...yep.. that ham makes me feel li myself"

  3. #13
    One With Starro Paradigm's Avatar
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    Re: Can we please fix Flash?!

    I guess we're just seeing it from two different angles. Flash has always been a lot better in solo queue compared to organized play. I'm sure he's fine in solo queue where you can farm safely and get big off people making mistakes. But if anyone has any kind of coordination he's completely useless. And I'm not talking about "pro" teams either. Get 5 decent players in a VoIP client and let them get a few games in together. He can jungle, but another team will just pick a real jungler and pressure all your lanes while you spend 2 minutes on the easiest jungle camp (hyperbole). If you lane with him you just get zoned and have your *** kicked. His level 6 is barely even a power spike at all. I think as it stands auto attacking deals more damage than his ult does at level 6.

    Just because he can do well does not mean that he's in a good place. Which he's not. At least in GD. Hell, Attack Damage Green Lantern can work, but that's not evidence that it's good. Balance should not be dictated by wildly different skill levels. If anyone is getting really big on Flash in GD it's because they are a lot better than their opponents, not because he's in a good spot.
    Last edited by Paradigm; 07-21-2014 at 02:12 PM.

  4. #14
    One With Starro Xoulrath's Avatar
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    Re: Can we please fix Flash?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradigm View Post
    I guess we're just seeing it from two different angles. Flash has always been a lot better in solo queue compared to organized play. I'm sure he's fine in solo queue where you can farm safely and get big off people making mistakes. But if anyone has any kind of coordination he's completely useless. And I'm not talking about "pro" teams either. Get 5 decent players in a VoIP client and let them get a few games in together. He can jungle, but another team will just pick a real jungler and pressure all your lanes while you spend 2 minutes on the easiest jungle camp (hyperbole). If you lane with him you just get zoned and have your *** kicked. His level 6 is barely even a power spike at all. I think as it stands auto attacking deals more damage than his ult does at level 6.

    Just because he can do well does not mean that he's in a good place. Which he's not. At least in GD. Hell, Attack Damage Green Lantern can work, but that's not evidence that it's good. Balance should not be dictated by wildly different skill levels. If anyone is getting really big on Flash in GD it's because they are a lot better than their opponents, not because he's in a good spot.
    I don't really disagree with most of what you say here. I know for a fact that he hasn't seen much pro-level play recently, because as you say, the opponent will just pick a better alternative, and harass lanes and counter-jungle. I just wonder if this would be the case on Coast City, with its two Jungler meta.

    As far as Flash being useless in team fights, I will have to disagree with you on that. He is still the only Assassin with an AoE ult, and he still has very high mobility. Certainly his presence his felt less early-game on any map, but his ult is at least good for helping your teammates by weakening the opposing team. I've noticed that I seem to be an Assist Queen with Flash early-game into mid, at which point I have my rushed Starheart and I am able to bring large burst to the party. Again, my recent experience is on GH, but a teamfight is a teamfight. The biggest issue on GD, as you point out, is that he might not have the farm to effectively do this. But if he does, then his teamfight presence is still very large.

    And with regards to Flash getting really big (on any map really) it is my understanding that that is the exact type of thing that Turbine is trying to avoid. It's certainly taking them a while, and I'm not always in agreement with the changes, but I do remember them stating that they don't want any one particular player getting massive feed over another, and certainly not over a whole team. And that was perhaps Flash's biggest issue before was that it was so easy to get feed on any map in any role because of his mobility. Then he has a 1K gold advantage, and his snowballs from there, GG. I don't believe that should be the case in a team game, and I know that Turbine feels the same way.

    Now, with all of that said, he probably does need a better role in GD due to him being a very poor jungler and not really any better in-lane. I still wonder if he would do well as I mentioned earlier, jungling in CC with a partner; or conversely being used as support early-game to help bot.

    Speaking of which, have you tried using him in a support capacity early in GD?
    V3G3TA: "Im pretty confident about my member...probly why I use Ham, and focus on the W, not the kdr...big guy thrwin his meat around sayin stuff. one really understands...with hair fom the 80 s...yep.. that ham makes me feel li myself"

  5. #15
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    Re: Can we please fix Flash?!

    Flash is still good, he just takes a brain now. Energy lance is amazing. Plus sinestros slow, his ult is the same it didn't get nerfed so it's still strong.

 

 

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