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  1. #1
    Associate Game System Designer IC_PlayByGray's Avatar
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    Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Greetings Protectors <3 (These notes are not for July 23 Patch! They're for the one after that)

    Let's Vault Kick off this next update for Champion Balance! Repeating from Hexx's last post "The goal of these posts is to give you a preview of changes we are currently testing so that you can be a part of the balance process and hopefully have a better understanding of what, why, and when changes will be coming down the pipeline."

    To keep the feedback focused, these posts will only discuss the Champion changes planned for the next patch.
    If you want a little more description on how we test changes and where we pull all our feedback from, take a look at Hexx's last Champion Balance post: https://www.infinitecrisis.com/forum...ance-(Patch-2)

    In the Pipeline (The Technical Stuff):
    Below are the Champion changes we currently have slated for the next patch. It's important to note that all values listed here are subject to change and some changes may be delayed to later patches.

    Gaslight Joker
    Ham Snack: The intent of this skill was to give Gaslight Joker a potent reward for successfully negating an incoming skill. The long duration and immediate Move Speed made it too easy and thus reduced the value of negating a skill.

    Goals:

    Increase skill cap of Ham Snack. This skill is meant to provide Gaslight Joker with a potent engage/disengage moment when he successfully negates a skill. The long duration combined with innate Move Speed made it extremely difficult to counter play.

    Changes:

    Base Attributes
    Health per level reduced from 90.2 to 80

    Ham Snack
    No longer grants 10% Move Speed while the Skill Shield is active
    Skill Shield duration reduced from 2s to 1s
    Move Speed Bonus reduced from 24/36/48/60% to 20/30/40/50%



    Sinestro
    While Sinestro currently has a low win rate (43%), we are seeing him be very dominant in the hands of high skill players. These changes are meant to reduce some of the forgiving ranges/radius he has on skills in order to increase his skill cap.

    Saw Blade: This skill was too weak early and too strong late due to all of its potency being tied to the missing health damage. This change is intended to even out the skills potency so that it is a viable option for single target damage throughout the entire game.

    Dread Scythe: This skills is meant to be Sinestro’s early game wave clear and transition into late game utility via the Silence. As such, we are going to reduce the ratio to lower its potency late-game (allowing both Q and E to shine).

    Fear Incarnate: We are reducing the Crowd Control and damage of this skill to make it a little less of a guaranteed kill

    Goals:

    Increase skill cap. The width/radius of his skills was a little too forgiving, allowing the Sinestro player to be fairly inaccurate and still land kills. Additionally, the radius on Cull the Weak meant he could fairly easily land a double kill with a single cast.

    Reduce hard crowd control. Sinestro was getting too much out of Fear Incarnate. We are reducing the duration of the Crowd Control and slightly reducing the Damage so that the skill is not a 100% guaranteed kill.

    Changes:

    Yellow Impurity
    Missing Health on Saw-blade changed from 7/8/9/10% to 4/6/8/10%
    Missing Health on Saw-blade no longer scales on Power Damage

    Saw-blade
    Increased Range from 800 to 850
    Increased base damage from 65/95/130/165 to 60/110/160/210
    Increased Damage Ratio from .6 to .65

    Dread Scythe
    Damage ratio reduced from .6 to .5
    Cone Width reduced from 60 degrees to 50 degrees
    Damage reduced from 40/80/120/160 to 40/75/110/145

    Cull The Weak
    Damage radius reduced from 2.5 to 1.75m

    Fear Incarnate
    Stun duration reduced from 1.5s to 1s
    Fear duration reduced from .75 to .5s
    Damage reduced from 175/275/375/475 to 175/250/325/400



    Atomic Wonder Woman
    Atomic Wonder Woman’s Move Speed passive wasn’t working out that well for her, with the already mobile kit she has. We’ve changed it to Cooldown Reduction upon reaching full Rev. So, when hitting full Rev, your skills on cooldown will be lowered by X/X/X/Xs, you don’t have to stay at full. The more you spam your skills, the lower your cooldowns will be.

    Another thing we’ve did is transfer damage from her second Vault activation and put it more into her Sweep. We felt the Utility on the second Vault should be used more as an escape after getting a kill as opposed to dealing more damage.

    Goals:

    Increase late game potency. The change to her Passive will help with her late-game output, while also giving back to the Sweep Scaling. CDR is always good to have and it will help her continue to have more rapid output.

    Changes:

    Rev
    No longer grants Move Speed at full Rev
    Skill now lowers cooldowns of skills on cooldown when hitting full Rev .25/.5/.75/1s

    Vault
    Second Vault does 50% less damage

    Sweep
    Damage Base increased from 30 to 35
    Ratio increased from 30% to 40%
    Duration of Bleed decreased from 5s to 3s (Damage of Bleed is unchanged)

    Reclaimer
    Cooldown increased from 140 to 145



    Cyborg
    We are increasing Cyborg’s base Move Speed and Cascade’s Slow potency so that he can more effectively secure kills and potentially escape ganks.

    Changes:

    Base Attributes
    Base Move Speed increased from 370 to 375

    Charged Burst
    Slow increased from 20% to 25%



    Green Arrow
    The Micro Cooldown change is meant to improve Green Arrow’s fluidity; allowing him to more easily swap stances based on the flow of battle. Additionally, Ballistic Arrow was doing a bit more damage than we wanted and with his overall efficacy improving, needed a reduction.

    Changes:

    All Stances
    Micro cooldown between stance swapping reduced from 1s to .5s

    Ballistic Arrow
    Damage reduced from 15/45/75/105 to 10/30/50/70



    Star Sapphire
    This change is meant to give Star Sapphire higher than average Move Speed when she has the crystal attached.

    Changes:

    Base Attributes
    Base Move Speed increased from 3.6 to 3.65



    Mecha Wonder Woman
    Damage per second of this skill was a bit too low, making it a risk proposition for use.

    Changes:

    Tempest
    Damage increased from 240/370/500/630 to 300/430/560/690



    Atrocitus
    The output value of Atrocitus’s passive was a bit lower than we intended and was not rewarding the Atrocitus player who focused on durability and soaking hits for his team.

    Changes:

    Red Lantern’s Rage
    Added a 1% Bonus Health ratio.



    Blue Beetle
    The intention of this change is to reward players who actively stance swap.

    Changes:

    Infiltrator Mode
    Triggers Reach Directive whenever he switches stances.



    Poison Ivy
    Thorn Shield’s potency is being brought in-line with other comparable temp health shields.

    Changes:

    Thorn Shield
    Cooldown reduced from 16/14/12/10 to 10s
    Will Scaling increased from 15% to 17.5%



    Green Lantern
    We are lowering the range on Constrict so locking down a Champion will make him get a bit closer to his target. He is too safely locking down Champions and dealing his full combo with too little risk.

    Changes:

    Constrict
    Range reduced from 575 to 500
    Last edited by IC_PlayByGray; 07-23-2014 at 11:10 AM.

  2. #2

    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    - I really like the Sinetro, Poison Ivy, and Green Arrow changes mostly.
    - Atrocitus changes are OK but he is still lacking something. He really needs Cooldown reduction per lv on q.
    - Fat Joker's spellshield nerfs are nice.
    - Poison Ivy REALLY needed that early game buff, however this might be a wake up call to nerf her late game since she has probably the best late game out of any champion except for maybe Fat Joker. I think the main thing that needs to be nerfed is the scaling and base on her heal and scaling on her ultimate.
    - I'm not sure what you mean by AtWW's new passive reducing cooldown when fully revved, does it mean that when you spend your rev on a skill all her cooldowns get reduced? Other than that, I think she's going to be god-tier now.
    - The only thing I see lacking here are Green Lantern nerfs (passive and range on W) and I'm pretty sure you guys are going to end up making NMSs shield (E) have a 10 second cooldown or somehow get buffed in another way so I'm just gonna leave that in here.

    EDIT1 : Atrocitus
    Last edited by BrawL.GeeEss; 07-22-2014 at 01:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Associate Game System Designer IC_PlayByGray's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by BrawL.GeeEss View Post
    - I really like the Sinetro, Poison Ivy, Green Arrow and Atrocitus changes mostly.
    - Fat Joker's spellshield nerfs are nice.
    - Poison Ivy REALLY needed that early game buff, however this might be a wake up call to nerf her late game since she has probably the best late game out of any champion except for maybe Fat Joker. I think the main thing that needs to be nerfed is the scaling and base on her heal and scaling on her ultimate.
    - I'm not sure what you mean by AtWW's new passive reducing cooldown when fully revved, does it mean that when you spend your rev on a skill all her cooldowns get reduced? Other than that, I think she's going to be god-tier now.
    - The only thing I see lacking here are Green Lantern nerfs (passive and range on W) and I'm pretty sure you guys are going to end up making NMSs shield (E) have a 10 second cooldown or somehow get buffed in another way so I'm just gonna leave that in here.
    - AWW - When hitting full Rev, your skills that are on cooldown will be lowered by X/X/X/Xs
    - PI - Ivy will be getting more changes for the big update, yes I agree with you on her late game potential
    - GL - We're looking into GL Passive and Range on W will be coming down (Maybe for this patch)
    Last edited by IC_PlayByGray; 07-22-2014 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Edited GL Response

  4. #4

    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_PlayByGray View Post
    - AWW - When hitting full Rev, your skills that are on cooldown will be lowered by X/X/X/Xs
    - PI - Ivy will be getting more changes for the big update, yes I agree with you on her late game potential
    - GL - We're looking into GL Passive and Range on W will be coming down (Maybe for this patch)
    noice noice

  5. #5
    Joining Harmony TeaSeeOh's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_PlayByGray View Post
    Sinestro
    While Sinestro currently has a low win rate (43%), we are seeing him be very dominant in the hands of high skill players. These changes are meant to reduce some of the forgiving ranges/radius he has on skills in order to increase his skill cap.

    Saw Blade: This skill was too weak early and too strong late due to all of its potency being tied to the missing health damage. This change is intended to even out the skills potency so that it is a viable option for single target damage throughout the entire game.

    Dread Scythe: This skills is meant to be Sinestro’s early game wave clear and transition into late game utility via the Silence. As such, we are going to reduce the ratio to lower its potency late-game (allowing both Q and E to shine).

    Fear Incarnate: We are reducing the Crowd Control and damage of this skill to make it a little less of a guaranteed kill

    Goals:

    Increase skill cap. The width/radius of his skills was a little too forgiving, allowing the Sinestro player to be fairly inaccurate and still land kills. Additionally, the radius on Cull the Weak meant he could fairly easily land a double kill with a single cast.

    Reduce hard crowd control. Sinestro was getting too much out of Fear Incarnate. We are reducing the duration of the Crowd Control and slightly reducing the Damage so that the skill is not a 100% guaranteed kill.

    Changes:

    Yellow Impurity
    Missing Health on Saw-blade changed from 7/8/9/10% to 4/6/8/10%
    Missing Health on Saw-blade no longer scales on Power Damage

    Saw-blade
    Increased Range from 8 to 8.5
    Increased base damage from 65/95/130/165 to 60/110/160/210
    Increased Damage Ratio from .6 to .65

    Dread Scythe
    Damage ratio reduced from .6 to .5
    Cone Width reduced from 60 degrees to 50 degrees
    Damage reduced from 40/80/120/160 to 40/75/110/145

    Cull The Weak
    Damage radius reduced from 2.5 to 1.75m

    Fear Incarnate
    Stun duration reduced from 1.5s to 1s
    Fear duration reduced from .75 to .5s
    Damage reduced from 175/275/375/475 to 175/250/325/400
    He has a low win rate, yet he's getting neutered across the board. The idea that "he's dominant in the hands of high skill players" is a given. Any character is, especially Aquaman or Star Sapphire who are far more of an issue than this character. His AoE's were forgiving and you can be inaccurate? This doesn't hold true for the character who gets a .05 movement speed increase(which is incredibly pointless)? Sapphire's passive can pretty much ensure you DON'T even have to hit Q to do damage, and it's even on a higher PD ratio. And the tether range on Bonds of Love? It's ridiculously huge. You have to COMPLETELY expose yourself on all of Sinestro's abilities except Sawblade, which is incredibly hard to hit at max range due to missile speed. Then you go on to say his Sawblade was weak early but strong late so you're changing it, but all you achieved was making it still bad early, and worse off late.

    These changes also don't address how completely and utterly Will hungry he is, nor how bad of a laning phase he has on GD. He will actually be worse off in laning phases for GD now, because of the Dread Scythe nerf; This ability was his main lane clear and harass. Sinestro changes have me completely scratching my head.



    Quote Originally Posted by IC_PlayByGray
    Star Sapphire
    This change is meant to give Star Sapphire higher than average Move Speed when she has the crystal attached.

    Changes:

    Base Attributes
    Base Move Speed increased from 3.6 to 3.65
    Was movement speed even an issue for this character? Adding 5 to her overall value isn't going to make an impactful difference whatsoever, nevermind how impossible she was to chase to begin with anyway as she has CC in her E, her ult roots, and the Predator's AAs proc'd Atlantean Royal Seal slow.


    Ivy, Atroc, and Beetle changes are nice and agreeable.
    Last edited by TeaSeeOh; 07-22-2014 at 03:21 PM.

  6. #6
    DigiComm Manager IC_ElectricLeo's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    I think Cyborg needs to have twice as much movespeed as anyone else. Please make the change.

    #RaiseYourDuffys

  7. #7
    One With Starro Wurm_king's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    I have to agree with TeaSeeOh on the Sinestro nerfs. all of the things you are changing were in a good spot already. yes he has incredible burst damage but then he is a sitting duck after words and as long as you avoided/survived his initial burst you could then destroy him on you counter attack.

    Aquaman and Star sapphire should be much bigger concerns with balancing. I mean Aqua's Q can do more damage to a character then Shazam's ultimate, can go through walls and it can be chained into an unavoidable ultimate combo. and star sapphire can win any exchange with another blaster because it feels like she can lay down so much more damage with her combo's then most blasters can. this is especially true on GD when you lane against her.

  8. #8
    One With Starro CH4_BrianFantana's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_ElectricLeo View Post
    I think Cyborg needs to have twice as much movespeed as anyone else. Please make the change.

    #RaiseYourDuffys
    I'm okay with this if and only if everytime he fires while his ult is up it recoils him backwards.
    Formerly Known as Hammerreborn

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  9. #9
    Protector
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_PlayByGray View Post
    - AWW - When hitting full Rev, your skills that are on cooldown will be lowered by X/X/X/Xs
    - PI - Ivy will be getting more changes for the big update, yes I agree with you on her late game potential
    - GL - We're looking into GL Passive and Range on W will be coming down (Maybe for this patch)
    GL is a huge joke, he's way to easy and his burst is insane. I have a way to fix him so he isn't so amazing mid game. Make the rocket stacks scale from rockets not slam, this way he has to get rockets if he wants burst instead of maxing chains second for that insane slow.

  10. #10

    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    These need to be in the patch notes. This forum has wayyy less visibility than the general patch notes announcements, and so anyone who only reads the patch notes will not be aware that these changes are going in also. Please connect things!

 

 

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