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  1. #31
    Considering Harmony
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    What happened to harleys design revisions?

  2. #32
    Joining Harmony SpiteU's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearsss View Post
    Cyborg works. His E gave to much a chase but with the increase of the W it will help himm escape ganks. and the slight increase in speed does not do much but in addition to the W it will help in life or death. Also if cyborg is getting the jump on players useing his W to chase people down then the enemy is doing somthing wrong against Cyborg.

    IVY change will make her shine as a support.

    I cant say anything about Sin because I never really got hands on with him.
    You are tottally right,

    As is Mathewb969, But as someone who mains Cyborg I can assure you this is a true buff.
    You spend all your time in game running away from 1v1s, and staying back in team fights.
    This buff with help his over-all kit.

    That is what excites me, I see the buff and I approve.

  3. #33
    Protector Bearsss's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Before the Cyborg nerf I would like to add his E skilll gave to much chase and escape for Cyborg.

  4. #34
    System Designer IC_Hexx's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate26 View Post
    What happened to harleys design revisions?
    She is in the pipeline, just not for this patch.

  5. #35

    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Hey, Don't you think green arrow is OP in later game.Also mecha wonder women need more moving speed.

  6. #36
    Protector Xoulrath's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by hammerreborn View Post
    I don't know about that. With both Ws proccing reach directive, this change allows 4 procs of it in a few seconds.
    True, but first of all, you have to have a very aggressive opponent to run straight at BB when he throws out his W, so that you can then get hit hard by his Q. Second, you need the passive to proc, which it may or may not do, because it does have a cooldown. Third, you need to be close enough to your opponent at this point to be able to change to Inf and then land a Q to take advantage of the true damage. And finally, you have to land your W to get that final proc.

    It's an awful lot of work for not that much reward in my opinion. I also think that it would require a fairly unskilled opponent to pull this zany combo off.

    That doesn't even account for the fact that if your target is below half health, that you are usually better off getting in a final auto-attack before using E to dash towards them, go Inf, and then secure the kill.

    Like I said, it will certainly help with ganks at the very least, so long as the target has low health.

    But the odds of getting of four procs off true damage on a regular basis isn't something I want to see him balanced around.


    Other possible changes for Blue Beetle:

    Boost his Q's base damage a bit. He can't trade with other MM auto for auto, and given his hybrid status, he shouldn't be able to. But if a BB player can land that Q, that gives him a way to make the fight more even in his favor.

    Increase the range of his W (in MM) to allow him to mark Champions easier, or to allow him to throw it into a stealth pad without getting so close that he gets punished for it.

    Boost his E range (MM); or its damage; or allow the next auto after an E to proc the passive regardless of cooldown.

    Give him more Move Speed in Inf mode. It can be a huge PITA to try to secure a kill with BB, even when you have a higher Move Speed than your opponent. I have had several low Health MM get away even after I E to close, go Inf, pop Super Speed, gap close with Q, and slow with E only to have the target live with a few points of health. Though admittedly, the Inf true damage proc might alleviate this particular issue.

    Give his W in Inf mode some damage against players, so that in addition to consuming the mark you get a bit extra from the move itself. Or it could be a mini-fear against Champs like it is for drones. Something like (.5) seconds would be great. This would obviously be in lieu of the damage to Champs. And since it's a scream, the range could also be increased a small amount.

    His E in Inf could use a 3 second duration instead of the 2 it has now. Since it decays over time, after the first second is up, it simply isn't as powerful as other slows in the game (especially considering this is for an "Assassin" mode that is the weakest in the game). He doesn't necessarily need to deal the Burst damage of other Assassins in Inf mode, but much like my suggestion to boost his Q to give him a burst over other MM, he could have respectable damage with even more control.

    His Q in Inf is in a pretty nice place. I guess that the range could be increased slightly, but I don't think that it's necessary. I feel the same about the damage. It could be increased slightly, but I don't think that it needs to be.

    Now please keep in mind that all of these suggestions are just that: suggestions. I am not saying that he needs all of this, or even most of this. But I feel that any of the above would be overall more beneficial to BB than the true damage proc when switching to Inf mode.
    Last edited by Xoulrath; 07-22-2014 at 06:05 PM.
    V3G3TA: "Im pretty confident about my member...probly why I use Ham, and focus on the W, not the kdr...big guy thrwin his meat around sayin stuff. one really understands...with hair fom the 80 s...yep.. that ham makes me feel li myself"

  7. #37

    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    I like the Ham Snack changes for Gas Joker, the GA changes, the Poison Ivy, and Atrocitus changes.

    However I think some of the Sinestro changes are moving in the wrong direction. I would argue that making his W harder to hit and lowering the damage actually increases his skill floor rather than increasing his skill ceiling. Removing damage from his W hurts his wave clear, which makes his laning phase harder for newer players and I would argue is not the reason for dominating play. I think the core issue is his damage on his E combined with instant reset on kill. This allows him to not only chain kills, but kill with a very small window for counterplay by the rest of the team. I would instead suggest slightly lower damage on his E later in the game and half reset on kill (possibly assist as well to lower the skill floor) rather than a full reset.

    I also think the AWW changes are misplaced as they add a ton of power to her actual damage output which I feel is in a good place right now. She's already a common pick in competitive play.

    Cyborg I think needs some more love in the skill floor department. I'm of the opinion that his kit is too loaded on hitting his Q. From a design perspective, hitting his Q is its own reward (getting initial damage + increased damage). Making his W and E rely on a specific order forces the player into the mindset of "I should not use these abilities without hitting Q." This lowers perceived impact and value of these abilities, as well as strongly limiting the player's power if they don't hit their Q. Even if the player consistently does hit the Q, the enemy can stay out of auto attack range until no longer marked, as Cyborg only gets 2 seconds of movespeed without extra autos.

    I personally would like to see his W and Ult also apply Trace Energy, his E have a wider window of opportunity (3-4 seconds without Trace Energy), and the double slow on W only applied if the enemy already had Trace Energy. If this is not enough, I would love if he got bonus movespeed moving toward enemies marked with Trace Energy although his damage would likely have to be lowered to compensate. Keep in mind that he is the only AD carry without a "blink" style escape and arguably the weakest at the moment.

  8. #38
    Community Advocate Mrlucho's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    How is that i didn't see this?
    I don't get it, first Ivy thorn shield was buffed with a 17.5, then nerfed with a 15, now buffed again with the same ratio
    o.o
    now it has a 10s Cooldown.

    Well, the other thing is... are there going to be any changes on some champs skills, for example: Robin's Vault Kick, the skill is a dash and Imo it makes no sense to make it a dash when it could be a rush.
    (also is there going to be any Stolen powers changes? i would like to suggest some possible changes)
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  9. #39
    System Designer IC_Hexx's Avatar
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    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaithas View Post
    I like the Ham Snack changes for Gas Joker, the GA changes, the Poison Ivy, and Atrocitus changes.

    However I think some of the Sinestro changes are moving in the wrong direction. I would argue that making his W harder to hit and lowering the damage actually increases his skill floor rather than increasing his skill ceiling. Removing damage from his W hurts his wave clear, which makes his laning phase harder for newer players and I would argue is not the reason for dominating play. I think the core issue is his damage on his E combined with instant reset on kill. This allows him to not only chain kills, but kill with a very small window for counterplay by the rest of the team. I would instead suggest slightly lower damage on his E later in the game and half reset on kill (possibly assist as well to lower the skill floor) rather than a full reset.

    I also think the AWW changes are misplaced as they add a ton of power to her actual damage output which I feel is in a good place right now. She's already a common pick in competitive play.

    Cyborg I think needs some more love in the skill floor department. I'm of the opinion that his kit is too loaded on hitting his Q. From a design perspective, hitting his Q is its own reward (getting initial damage + increased damage). Making his W and E rely on a specific order forces the player into the mindset of "I should not use these abilities without hitting Q." This lowers perceived impact and value of these abilities, as well as strongly limiting the player's power if they don't hit their Q. Even if the player consistently does hit the Q, the enemy can stay out of auto attack range until no longer marked, as Cyborg only gets 2 seconds of movespeed without extra autos.

    I personally would like to see his W and Ult also apply Trace Energy, his E have a wider window of opportunity (3-4 seconds without Trace Energy), and the double slow on W only applied if the enemy already had Trace Energy. If this is not enough, I would love if he got bonus movespeed moving toward enemies marked with Trace Energy although his damage would likely have to be lowered to compensate. Keep in mind that he is the only AD carry without a "blink" style escape and arguably the weakest at the moment.
    Sinestro:
    We're watching him - I could definitely see more love coming to Saw-blade and potentially leaving Scythe with just the width reduction (even at 50 degrees, you hit pretty much whatever you want. This skill was meant to be pretty easy for him to use).
    Cull the Weak is meant to be a high risk/reward scenario. With a reduction in radius, we're hoping to see less "free kills" by just getting sort of close to his mark.

    Cyborg:
    We were specifically trying to give him some love due to his lack of escape. You make a fair point about the predefined skill rotation.


    A lot of good stuff here all, keep it comin!

  10. #40

    Re: Champion Balance (Patch 3)

    I don't know if this is the right place for it but I think removing tower juggling has a negative effect on all players who play squishy champions. With the increased attack speed, it's very easy for a diving squishy to tank a turret shot after a tank has had tower aggro for 6+ shots. At this point, the squishy is going to take a huge tower shot, creating a strong contrast between the "normal" first tower shot on them that gives them time to react and get out of range.

    I think a better solution is increasing the ramping effect. That way it becomes harder to tank over a long period. Even if people swap agro, if they do it too often they won't have enough of an impact on champions under the turret.

 

 

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