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  1. #31

    Re: Underused Jungle

    To reiterate what several people have already said, jungling has changed. I have been jungling with batman and Atomic Ivy with ease, but I found jungling with shazam to be almost impossible. Still I don't really see a problem here.

  2. #32
    Protector Miraql's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Hord4k View Post
    I say: decrease map size

    less traveling time -> Less knowledge about map control and easier to spam wards (CAMERAS SORRY) to reveal everything*

    - easier ganks - More passive playstyle*
    - more likely to get help for big camps - Already happening, at least in higher level plays
    - back to base not as punishing - Recalling for pots spam gets easier so I can regen faster, even though base health regen is high as *****

    and last but not least, less running -> more fun - Less planning around which objective which would be best in certain situations*
    Added statements to why this is not the way to fix the map.

    Please, don't make this game into the next League.

    Also, people already are getting help for big camps early on, but the difference from this and League here is, we don't have Buffs granted from the camps to make the rest of the Jungle an cakewalk.

    Map is fine, but the Jungle takes too long to clear on let's say Flash for an example, the issue is the jungle drones have a huge health pool early on and hit quite hard, tone that down a bit and maybe do something about the respawn timer so jungler can get back into the game if ganking is out of the questions.

    It happens quite a lot in League really, if the Jungler gets behind, he's near useless and it's an 4v5, which is the only reason to I'd like to see the Jungle have an improwed respawn timer.
    Last edited by Miraql; 02-11-2014 at 03:28 PM.

  3. #33

    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Miraql View Post
    Added statements to why this is not the way to fix the map.
    Map is fine, but the Jungle takes too long to clear on let's say Flash for an example, the issue is the jungle drones have a huge health pool early on and hit quite hard, tone that down a bit and maybe do something about the respawn timer so jungler can get back into the game if ganking is out of the questions.
    You are not supposed to be able to jungle just as effectively with any champion. I'm not saying you shouldn't jungle with Flash, but his kit is not perfectly suited to jungle. Gaslight Batman & Zatanna can jungle too. Certain champions just have a more effective kit for jungling including shields, multiple AoE damage or sustain. Nightbat has sustain, Doomsday & AWW have AoE and Superman has a spammable shield passive.

    Flash & other champions who are not designed to jungle lack this. You experience them as being especially weak early game. I do not think an entire map should be adjusted so someone can play a non-jungler more effectively in the jungle.

    EDIT: Also if you are struggling with finding ganks and your camps are all cleared, just help a lane push & take the turret or EMP if possible...
    Last edited by Reason_Joekel; 02-11-2014 at 08:20 PM.

  4. #34

    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Reason_Joekel View Post
    Flash & other champions who are not designed to jungle lack this. You experience them as being especially weak early game. I do not think an entire map should be adjusted so someone can play a non-jungler more effectively in the jungle.
    The problem with this statement is that Flash can't easily lane either. This leaves him with either struggling early in the jungle (though it is doable); struggling early in a solo lane (especially against Marksmen and Bruisers); or going duo lane (with a Marksmen seems to be highly effective).

    It shouldn't be easy for any single Champ to play any single role. But the Champ should probably be good at more than one role. Granted, Flash can become very powerful late-game and should be very weak early. But he should also have a chance to get to late-game and against better players, I believe that there is more of a struggle early-game than may have been intended.

  5. #35

    Re: Underused Jungle

    Flash is a niche champion. He is very very hard to play early as a solo laner. You could try playing him in a 2v2 lane for the first few levels (as support afaic) and then start roaming. Keep ganking different lanes and shove them into the enemy's turret every time. This will still net you exp & gold, and save you from the insanely hard time Flash has actually being static in a lane.

  6. #36

    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Reason_Joekel View Post
    Flash is a niche champion.
    I'm not even sure what you mean by this. Flash has a weak early game precisely because his late game is so strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reason_Joekel View Post
    He is very very hard to play early as a solo laner.
    His biggest issue is that EVERYTHING that he does is PURE melee. Unfortunately he is not a Bruiser and this hurts him in a solo lane. It's not that he is hard to play early in a solo lane, it's that he can't win against a competent Marksman or Bruiser. As I've stated numerous times, he is poked too hard by the Marksman with no way to retaliate. And Bruisers own him by simply outlasting him. Additionally, there are plenty of Champs that can poke even though they are Melee. Flash does not have this option (nor should he since he wouldn't be Flash and his kit is very good).

    Quote Originally Posted by Reason_Joekel View Post
    You could try playing him in a 2v2 lane for the first few levels (as support afaic) and then start roaming. Keep ganking different lanes and shove them into the enemy's turret every time. This will still net you exp & gold, and save you from the insanely hard time Flash has actually being static in a lane.
    I've run him multiple ways. They are all reasonably successful with the right team at your side. Since this is a team game, I don't have much of an issue with that, but it makes for some frustration when you are matched with new players in solo queue since there is no Ranked or fully functioning MMR yet.

    And I've stated this before as well: Flash can work in the jungle, but you need a good leash on that first elite, and you have to take Detonate and Consume to speed up your clear.

    He can solo lane quite well against Blasters and Supports, but he runs into issues against Bruisers and Marksmen.

    He is fantastic in a duo role, especially with a Marksman. The MM pokes and Flash can help to finish off a target with some burst.

    Regardless of any of the above statements, once you can get to level 6 and about 2k coin, you are set up to better work your chosen assignment. But those first few levels can be very rough.

  7. #37

    Re: Underused Jungle

    Personally i main jungle and early it can hurt but it keeps you in check. Once you learn it it is alot of fun and very manageable.

  8. #38
    Protector Miraql's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    Overall, I feel like a lot of people thing the jungle is too hard, or cannot be soloed. I assure you that this isn't true, it's just not as easy to jungle as Coast City. We specifically wanted to make it a little bit of a challenge, as we didn't think having blasters like GL prime being able to jungle on this map was very viable. That being said, try this:

    Pick Gas Cat, Nightmare Batman, or Batman.
    Take Consume and Detonate.
    Buy a Marauder Shield, and a Nil Weapon.
    Start at the Health Destroyer First, have your teammates from bottom or top put some damage on it so you have a bit of a head start.
    Do the remaining camps in order, with the Speed Destroyer last. (Try to save a consume or Detonate for the Speed Destroyer )
    Always kill the little creatures first, killing the big ones last. (Less creatures, less DPS, Less damage to you.)
    Do the EMP, top or bottom, where ever you end up and head back to base to get a T-Skill!
    >You need to take Consume and Detonate
    And with that, the game went League.

  9. #39

    Re: Underused Jungle

    You don't need Detonate if you get a good leash. Also, I've found that on the second camp if you kill the 2 smaller creatures first (they go down fast) you will hit level 2 which makes things much easier. If I want to run without Detonate I'll ask in champ select if the team will be giving me a leash to be sure.

  10. #40

    Re: Underused Jungle

    If you jungle Flash, you may not NEED Detonate, but you sure as heck benefit from it.

    Even at level 6, with a level 2 Marauders Shield, a level 1 Cosmic Belt, and three Tektite vials, my health simply gets depleted too much by the elite minion. Killing the small ones isn't even a problem at level 1. But the big one deals so much damage that it's nice to have that extra DPS on him in the form of Detonate.

    And of course Consume is pretty much necessary for early game sustain.

 

 

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