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  1. #11
    Protector Xoulrath's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    Overall, I feel like a lot of people thing the jungle is too hard, or cannot be soloed. I assure you that this isn't true, it's just not as easy to jungle as Coast City. We specifically wanted to make it a little bit of a challenge, as we didn't think having blasters like GL prime being able to jungle on this map was very viable. That being said, try this:
    I completely agree with this and yet I don't. My reasoning is because it seems that it is a design paradigm to allow any Champ to slot into any role, to at least some degree. So if a team runs Trip Blaster Duo Marksman then according to what I have seen from the devs all beta long, is that they should be able to.

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    Pick Gas Cat, Nightmare Batman, or Batman.
    So now we are forced to choose these three Champs specifically? I have run Gas Cat and Bats in the jungle. It works well enough, but you still run the risk of getting behind, lacking in health and unable to gank, and worst of all, you are forced to play "beefier" Champs just to jungle.

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    Take Consume and Detonate.
    As above, you are then forced into a specific set of Stolens and I don't think that is a good design decision. And for anyone who has played for a month, this is a no-brainer to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    Buy a Marauder Shield, and a Nil Weapon.
    Again, someone that has played for a month or so knows this. And you are then set into an initial build (which admittedly is hard to get away from at level 1).

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    Start at the Health Destroyer First, have your teammates from bottom or top put some damage on it so you have a bit of a head start.
    Do the remaining camps in order, with the Speed Destroyer last. (Try to save a consume or Detonate for the Speed Destroyer )
    Always kill the little creatures first, killing the big ones last. (Less creatures, less DPS, Less damage to you.)
    It is a team game, and I don't have a problem with the concept of getting some help to start your mobs. But in this world of beta and new players, it can be very hard to get a good team, and just as hard to get your team to give you that assistance. And killing the little creatures first is another one of those no-brainers. Anyone that has played a MOBA, MMO, or just about any other game on the planet knows this.

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    It's possible and fairly simple to do even with default amplifier sets, I literally tested it this morning. For even more help, equip a -100 credits mod for your nil weapon, and pick up a level 2 health vial at the start as well. You should have no problem clearing the entire jungle without heading back to base.
    And still you continue to force us into a specific mold. I don't want to play the game that you want to play. I want to play the game that I want to play. For the most part, you guys are delivering that game. But when a lot of players who have been around for a while are telling you that the jungle is too tough to clear and then gank, you should listen. You should investigate. A few games with cherry-picked Champions is not enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    TLDR: The jungle is more difficult than coast city, but I am not buying that it is not solo-able, or too tough to do.
    The jungle is solo-able, but it is tough to do. Believe it. Do yourself a favor and try a different Champ than one of the three you mentioned above. Try Flash for example. Do so with and without a leash to start. Either way, it can be tough to be able to do your job. The jungle itself is easily doable, but that is not your only concern, and that is what you seem to be overlooking.

  2. #12
    Protector SeAntibody's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    Xoul, I think you misunderstand what he's getting at. What I believe Fantus is saying is that this is an option of how to jungle, and its straightforward enough that a new player can understand what to do. Of course you can jungle with others, this is only one option.

    IC is really trying to push hard at helping people learn how to jungle, and I really appreciate it because along with the feature focus, I have become a great jungler (I use the Atomics, not ww).

    Keep up the great work IC devs
    "Of course they're mad..... They're mad because I know how to hurt them" -Batman

  3. #13
    Protector Unilord's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    Overall, I feel like a lot of people thing the jungle is too hard, or cannot be soloed. I assure you that this isn't true, it's just not as easy to jungle as Coast City. We specifically wanted to make it a little bit of a challenge, as we didn't think having blasters like GL prime being able to jungle on this map was very viable. That being said, try this:

    Pick Gas Cat, Nightmare Batman, or Batman.
    Take Consume and Detonate.
    Buy a Marauder Shield, and a Nil Weapon.
    Start at the Health Destroyer First, have your teammates from bottom or top put some damage on it so you have a bit of a head start.
    Do the remaining camps in order, with the Speed Destroyer last. (Try to save a consume or Detonate for the Speed Destroyer )
    Always kill the little creatures first, killing the big ones last. (Less creatures, less DPS, Less damage to you.)
    Do the EMP, top or bottom, where ever you end up and head back to base to get a T-Skill!

    It's possible and fairly simple to do even with default amplifier sets, I literally tested it this morning. For even more help, equip a -100 credits mod for your nil weapon, and pick up a level 2 health vial at the start as well. You should have no problem clearing the entire jungle without heading back to base.

    TLDR: The jungle is more difficult than coast city, but I am not buying that it is not solo-able, or too tough to do.
    I have no problem jungling with the 3 you mentioned, or even doomsday, but what about Flash for example? He is an assasin so a jungle role fits him best, yet he takes a lot of damage and has a slow clearing (at least for me). So consider a damage buff against jungle creatures, like adding to his Q a "this skill does 25% more damage to neutral creatures" or similar.

  4. #14

    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by unilordx View Post
    I have no problem jungling with the 3 you mentioned, or even doomsday, but what about Flash for example? He is an assasin so a jungle role fits him best, yet he takes a lot of damage and has a slow clearing (at least for me). So consider a damage buff against jungle creatures, like adding to his Q a "this skill does 25% more damage to neutral creatures" or similar.
    Personally I don't think Flash has a sustainable concept for pure jungling. For him to work well I think you'd need to have a team that uses a lane switching plan. 2 constantly in the carry lane, alternating with the other 3 for solo laning and jungling. Flash starts off in a duo or solo lane till level 2 or 3, switches with jungle to take out some mobs, or goes from duo to solo, then onto the next position in the rotation. If you can rotate the lines effectively, you'll be good to go and high leveled in no time.
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  5. #15

    Re: Underused Jungle

    I find its somewhat easy to clear however the only problem is the respawn times I feel need to be fixed in other games like HoN I think the respawn times are 1-1 1/2 minutes for the camp's. Of course over there you can just place a ward or in this case a camera into the camp and it dosn't respawn.

  6. #16
    Considering Harmony Cap's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    Overall, I feel like a lot of people thing the jungle is too hard, or cannot be soloed. I assure you that this isn't true, it's just not as easy to jungle as Coast City. We specifically wanted to make it a little bit of a challenge, as we didn't think having blasters like GL prime being able to jungle on this map was very viable. That being said, try this:

    Pick Gas Cat, Nightmare Batman, or Batman.
    Take Consume and Detonate.
    Buy a Marauder Shield, and a Nil Weapon.
    Start at the Health Destroyer First, have your teammates from bottom or top put some damage on it so you have a bit of a head start.
    Do the remaining camps in order, with the Speed Destroyer last. (Try to save a consume or Detonate for the Speed Destroyer )
    Always kill the little creatures first, killing the big ones last. (Less creatures, less DPS, Less damage to you.)
    Do the EMP, top or bottom, where ever you end up and head back to base to get a T-Skill!

    It's possible and fairly simple to do even with default amplifier sets, I literally tested it this morning. For even more help, equip a -100 credits mod for your nil weapon, and pick up a level 2 health vial at the start as well. You should have no problem clearing the entire jungle without heading back to base.

    TLDR: The jungle is more difficult than coast city, but I am not buying that it is not solo-able, or too tough to do.

    True. I don't think anyone is saying that it's impossible, but rather that as it stands it is forcing a single "jungler build" and certain characters. This is fine too, but since it requires more skill and a certain build to do it even remotely effectively, most people aren't doing it, which is by default forcing a 2-1-2 meta. Again, if this is what the devs want for GD then more power to them, but personally I would like to see a map where there is enough possibility to try interesting compositions/builds and possibly be effective.

  7. #17
    Considering Harmony Cap's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    Agree with everything Xoul just said!

  8. #18
    Joining Harmony awK_Spaghetti's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    The jungle in Gotham Divided is strong, as it should be. You should be getting assistance on your first camp, the Health Destroyer (funny name, since it destroys your HP bar). Kill it with assistance (leashing is an incredibly common practice in the MOBA genre), go straight to your Speed Destroyer, and back for a T skill.

    Marauder Shield 1 blocks 5 damage every time a jungle drone hits you. Marauder Knife increases the damage you deal to drones by 10 on basic attacks (full 10, not reduced by armor). These 2 items combined keep you alive while increasing your drone damage output substantially (you will auto-attack a lot). This leaves you 250 credits, for a level 3 Health Pack, or a level 2 Tektite Vial.

    If you are having trouble in the GD jungle, revise the way you are approaching it. This isn't the brain dead easy Coast City jungle, clear 3 weak camps for minimal reward and gank a lane. This jungle is very valuable, and I frequently, even in premade v premade games, end up with the highest credit count and the highest level.

    The jungle is fantastic in it's current state, people need to take the time to learn it before they write it off. The map hasn't even been playable for a week. There are a lot of moving parts.

  9. #19
    Protector Xoulrath's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by Dycer94 View Post
    Personally I don't think Flash has a sustainable concept for pure jungling. For him to work well I think you'd need to have a team that uses a lane switching plan. 2 constantly in the carry lane, alternating with the other 3 for solo laning and jungling. Flash starts off in a duo or solo lane till level 2 or 3, switches with jungle to take out some mobs, or goes from duo to solo, then onto the next position in the rotation. If you can rotate the lines effectively, you'll be good to go and high leveled in no time.
    Flash can jungle well enough. It's just that you either have little Will to be useful for a gank early on, or you have too little health to gank. He can clear the jungle just fine with Consume, Detonate, and Maurader's items. I grab the health one myself. The jungle clear isn't the problem here or on CC. It's the lack of sustain that he has.

    As far as laning, he does quite well in a duo lane, but he is too heavily outplayed by pretty much everyone in a solo lane. Marksmen just poke at you while you try to farm, and you aren't strong enough to do anything about it. Blasters punish you in much the same way. Bruisers take far more hits, so you can't really afford to lane against them either. Same deal with the Enforcers. Supports can fall into either Blaster, Bruiser or Enforcer roles. And other Assassins are all stronger than Flash early-game. In addition, Gas Cat and NMB have a poke of their own and never have to directly engage Flash and can just continue farming.

  10. #20
    Protector Xoulrath's Avatar
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    Re: Underused Jungle

    Quote Originally Posted by coL_Spaghetti View Post
    The jungle is fantastic in it's current state, people need to take the time to learn it before they write it off. The map hasn't even been playable for a week. There are a lot of moving parts.
    I agree with this. I really like the jungle in this map. I think that it should be a challenge. That isn't the issue that I personally have. I'm just a bit saddened by the fact that I have to take specific items/Stolens that are really only intended for jungle clear. It's not that you have to take one. It's that you have to take multiple. At least Consume and Detonate are useable in lane should you find yourself there.

    I don't think much needs to be done to the jungle itself. But I would like to see a bit more Will Regen, either on a Marauder, or from a camp kill. As Flash I simply go OOM too often. When I played Gas Cat, there was no Will issue at all. And Batman of course is an Energy-based Champ who is also beefy, so he clears the jungle very well.

 

 

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