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  1. #11
    Joining Harmony LadySnow's Avatar
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    Oct 2013

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    Well at least these maps are all green everywhere like in Dawngate and League of Legends and Dota2 and Strife and Prime World and Smite ya know.

    Still... with all these universes, you'd have thought that while the concept of two Gotham cities converging is really cool, they'd have picked two Gotham cities more different than each other than Gaslight and Prime. They seem pretty similar to me.

  2. #12

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by IC_Fantus View Post
    We are always open to suggestions, but sadly we are unable to make every map that is suggested. The short of it is that it takes a huge amount of manpower to take a map from start to finish, and anything involving PvP undergoes extensive testing internally before it's even close to being released. As a example, I started prototyping Gotham Divided in January last year. It ended up taking about 9 revisions and a year to actually bring everything together.
    Sorry for my absence.
    I got this topic running so i could get a grasp of your openness to the idea of new maps and, of course, to understand a little more about the process.

    My idea for a MAP is one to stay at bay until there is some kind of mission system running. Something already proposed on this topic.

    Once we have a system that gives a little more attention to the lore and the game style of a player(preferable lore; statistics: damage dealing/damage suffered; mastered roles: Support, Bruisers....) We can have a map where the objective notion is more loose and environmental in a way that truly casual players can have lots of fun without getting afk/quitting on a map where hes presence does matter.

    The idea is based on the war3 map, 10 Hero Siege Northland.
    I gonna demonstrate the map circuit. Remember that the theme is not something closed, it can be a forest, a gaslight city, a composition of floating islands from other worlds...:

    The conduit have failed. Anti-monitor prevailed and this is the last stand of all earths. The surviving protectors got a plan working to stop the final punch. On top of the map is the BigBad doing his dealings. To get there and be able to hit him you gonna have to do some works around the map. Like saving resources, protecting survivors/working scientists on a street block, prepare a longitudinal wave shooting machine from gaslight, feed a monstrous atomic plant, repair a metro station, restore some sacred artefact... at least tree midway objectives that gonna weaken the BigBad so he can be affronted.
    1)Once the game starts the anti-monitor mobs spawn and keep waving the last stand for something like 3~5 minutes until the protectors become strong enough to fight back trough lanes. Of course, the great possibility of lose the stand and the game have to be overwhelming.
    2)The protectors buy something, get some level and/or attributes and once they are able to push back the lanes anti-monitor gives them some reminder by adding new minion kind on the waves.
    3)They destroy/collapse some antimatter holes and get access to the first arena. a midway objective. Once conquered, anti-monitor storm the last stand again. After 3~5 minutes they are able to push.
    4)They destroy/collapse some antimatter holes and get access to the second arena. a midway objective. Once conquered, anti-monitor momentary rises the veil and show the protectors that there is no contest to his power by absorbing a huge chunk of the map, and also "kicking a god" and something like it. Then, he storms the last stand with really strong abominations. After 3~5 minutes the protectors are able to fortify the stand in a way that it needs little to no help against the abominations.
    5)Then the protectors are sealed on the last stand for some seconds. The fog takes the map back. Time to drink, buy, rest... and build up up that climatic felling... like the first boat arriving on D-day in Normandy/Omaha beach. Once the gates are down the protectors do the last push trough the mob-fog cloud and faces anti-monitor. The last stand falls and there is no turning back. The last arena is closed and the MvP starts.
    6)Wherever the protectors did during the game affects the fight in a way or another, like a huge shoot, or a monstrous plant helping in the fight. Then they have to solve a puzzle like taking anti-monitor away from something while fighting. And finally the hold my dps+healtpoolVSyours.

    This is a basic setup where you can easily introduce some casual PvP, even on team standards or score/objective attack.

  3. #13
    Community Advocate Cates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    Obviously the genres are different, but one thing that DCU Online does extremely well is allow the player to experience iconic DC locations. Yes, Gotham and Metropolis are the main regions of the game, but you can also go to the Batcave, the JLA Watchtower, the Fortress of Solitude, Mogo, OA, Themiscyra, Ferris Aircraft, Bludhaven--you get the idea.

    That concept can be even further explored in this multiverse game. What does the Fortress of Solitude look like in the Nightmare verse? Or a Gaslight Watchtower? Seeing a combo prime/altverse maps of those iconic locations is really a great prospect for this game. TBH, Gotham Divided doesn't really get at that, both sides don't seem differnet enough to really be from multiple universes.

  4. #14

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by David12596 View Post
    All I want to see one day is a map that changes into different universe themes every X minutes and has the 6 universes that we have now in it. It be cool...and a ton of work. lol
    THIS... this is what should've happened. Not for just GD, but for the other maps as well. Maybe 2 "skins" for each game mode there currently are, just to give some other DC Universion locations a spot to shine.

  5. #15
    Considering Harmony Trseil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    A multiverse map wasn't out of the question and it was commented on stream that they actually looked at applying that to GD but I believe where it would fail is....

    See how many threads they already have about people systems not being able to handle this game.. or the game crashing.... or this that and the other with environments. Now imagine how complicated a map would be if it "phased" into another universe during game play.

    This is still beta, anything can be changed and or altered.... but I like GD the way it is. If they were to make another map I'd rather it be far down the line after we get a ton of new champs to fill out the line up. Quest ideas and other things like that are pretty cool though.

    I'd like to feel like I'm doing something besides JUST leveling to the next level to get the next MOD/AMP.

    A slightly different idea on our screen however. What better way to immerse into the DC universe then having different environments while we wait for the next match/talking in chat/hanging out in a group waiting for que. What I mean is; when you login your backdrop is the Fortress of Solitude or the Batcave or Joker's Layer. Right now, its the planet earth in the background and while the pic is nice this would give players something else to potentially earn; another easy way for us to customize the screen. For instance, you level'd Joker up to level 10, 15, or 20, grats, here is this new backdrop you can now customize your game with.

  6. #16

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    First I want to say: I love DC. I want this game to be GREAT! I REALLY DO! But as of now, I don't think it is anything special.
    So I will give some feedback, it may sound harsh, but I really just want to be helpful and give constructive criticism. and in order to do that, I will write a very long post, sorry about that, hopefully it gets its attention no matter the length. I will divide it in two parts - criticism and suggestion

    You see, even though the MOBA genre is young, there are great games out there that stayed for a couple of years... with them, the maps (modes) they have. What I'm saying is - the players are more or less tired of the same maps over and over again. Yet, here it is a new MOBA game and instead of receiving new experience we receive the same maps and modes, old mobas were already providing. Yes, maybe with a new skin, just a little bit different layout and some different bonuses... again really small differences. I'm afraid this will not make the game great. Instead it is more likely to make the game die slowly.
    why should i play the new game that is exactly the same as the old one? i'm already used to the old one, the old one probably IS and will stay more polished for a long time. most of my friends are there... there is no point in learning the little differences just to play almost the same game and have the same experience.
    This is the "let's make a WoW clone" all over again. there were some great MMOs that were probably even better than WoW, but they didn't offer very different experience so the people were just "why should i level up again and try to learn the different things in this game, when at the end the gameplay gives me the same feel and experience... and all my friends are playing WoW, why should I transfer?"

    I will probably want the classic maps to be in the final game... but before you give us the standard experience we are used to from the old mobas you should try to give us new experience. those maps should have been like a nostalgic bonus, and not the primary thing in the game... So what I'm saying for now is, probably creating 3 maps that are based on old cassic MOBA maps is probably a mistake from your behalf, that may cost you greatly in the long run. In my opinion you should have created only one of them, 2 at most. and focus on something different after that. (what different - in part 2)

    And here is a question: How do you intend to keep the playerbase? With DC skins? Is that all? Yes, the modes are a bit different, but just a bit. So if you are just focusing in the DC fans... well ok you got their attention already, you can probably now relax and don't do another thing, than providing the other heroes and villains. That will keep them busy for some time. Although I don't know if even the DC fans will stay for long if they don't receive something different than champions with DC skins and abilities. Again, if you just make the clone with a little bit of tweaks, sadly the game is condemned to die. This is proven with the "WoW clone" fiasco...

    So, what I'm saying is the game need something new, something different. And it need something a bit more DC style, more DC feel. The game needs something that is in unison with the DC multiverse, and I'm not sure, if reskinning the maps from the fantasy based MOBAs will do the trick. I know it is the easier way to go, but is it the right way to go?

    OK, enough about explaining why the game needs something different

    Here is some Idea on how you can make the game feel new and different:

    Again something in DC style, in unison with DC: so for theme, let say galactic invasion, (something like in the the new Justice League War movie). of course you can change the theme to be more in unison with the story behind the Infinite Crisis title.
    So one team chose only from heroes, the other only from villains. Both teams will have some kind of objectives to complete. during the gameplay the heroes will have to close portals, while the villains will want to keep them open for as long as they can become stable and self-sustaining. when this objective finish, another one opens (or maybe all objectives are simultaneous, or two now, two later...), it can be the same or different (like defending key structure, like giant defending turret, or army that will help in stopping the invasion if saved, and the opposite for the villains - the invasion will be easier without that army/structure to interfere). when all objectives are completed, if the villains managed to be victorious the invasion begins, if the heroes were the victorious the invasion is stopped. and that can actually not be the end of the mission.
    there can even be some kind of final objective where big or small invasion start (something like mobs entering the battlefield through the portals) depending of how many starting objectives the villains were able to complete (so more or less mobs, or stronger or weaker mobs). and the heroes - well they can get backups - other heroes coming to their aid (something like bots) or a human army; and again stronger or weaker depending on how many objectives they were able to complete. of course it will be score specific and not exactly on completing objectives (i.e. no matter the villains win the objective, the score can actually be almost tied - 45% on 55% or something), otherwise if one team manage to win most or all objectives, even by close, they will get huge advantage for the final fight, with score depending end, the final battle can be pretty even, and the loosing team can actually become the victorious. and the other way around if one team is really really weaker and basically it is obvious the game is determined from the start, the final battle will be really fast, resulting in shorter game.

    That's it. simple idea, actually not so different from what we had in older mobas, but adding a bit of DC tweaks, making the map actually different from the clasic maps, adding a bit different objectives, and you have something that feels new (at least in my eyes).

    I know this will be a lot of work, I know it will be a lot of balancing, a lot of designing... but you cannot expect people to stay true to a new game, if the game don't actually feel new and different.

    Again sorry for the long post. Wishes you the best of luck!
    Last edited by Suncho; 03-02-2014 at 07:51 AM.

  7. #17
    Considering Harmony Trseil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suncho View Post
    I can understand your view point on the game. Yes, it would have been cool and brought something new to the table if they introduced a new game mode to the MoBa Genre. They did however introduce a new 2 lane map. As far as the other two maps are concerned.... Gotham Heights - Have you played it? If you say the map type is similar to Dominion you would be correct but that is about all that is similar about it. The map is addicting and fun... It is widely popular with the player base we currently have. Turbine is interested in supporting tournament ideas from the get go. Basically, Turbine has taken an idea and improved on it to the point that it is its own entity. I challenge you to play GH and then try going back to Dominion. It's BORING, all the flaws that were only slightly irritating before are now a major annoyance. Gotham Divided - What's similar? Oh yeah, 3 lanes... Again, Turbine took an idea and PWNED it. I mean the maps got it all and then some. Every map in fact is widely addicting and fun to play....

    You could say, Turbine why didn't you come out with a new game mode/map, I counter with... Why would they? The game isn't even in open beta yet (soon) It's true that it does follow a traditional MoBa game but it still takes some time to get used to the Artifacts, Stolen Powers, Augs/Mods, and not to mention champion skills/mechanics. Giving players who have played the genre before something that they recognize and can pick up easily is a point that should be put in the Pro section.

    I'm not saying that a new game mode/map wouldn't be great. The ideas you brought forth are awesome. I've seen many players requesting for villains vs heroes game modes but I just don't feel that the champion select pool (16ish heroes vs 8ish villains) is large enough to support that idea. Of course that will change somewhere down the line where it could/might be addressed and while we all might like/want a new map or game mode I believe it took them a year to develop Gotham Divided to the point where we could test it. It's still not done.

    I think the selections they've made so far are pretty great and they lay a foundation to grow on.

  8. #18

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trseil View Post
    Why would they?
    I said 'why'. If you give a clone with the exact same experience and only upgraded mechanics/features, then the game is condemned to die. This has proven itself with the "WoW clones" fiasco. How many games came out that were WoW clones? and many of them even said "We will be the WoW killer, because we have upgraded mechanics". And what happened with them? they were either complete failure or just not so successful. Yes many of them were good, some of them were even great. some had mechanics that were really really good, yet no one managed to remove the "titan" that wow is no matter they said they will. Ok, let's take RIFT - I think the game is great, it has beautiful environment, it has great mechanics, a lot better than WoW's imo, fluid gameplay... yet, it went f2p. yes it is still played, it has a lot of players and fans... but it is not nearly as the developers hoped and counted for. Why? well simply because the feel was more or less the same, the new mechanics were not enough to make you think you play something completely new. So instead of a lot of players transferring from WoW and stay, and a lot of new players, they stayed with only the "a lot new players". people tried it, liked it, and yet said "naah, i'm returning to WoW"

    and this game has to compete and steal players not from one but TWO giant games from this genre (and they are both F2P)... and i mean giant... if i'm not mistaken LoL have the biggest playerbase of every game genre. OK a lot LoL and DOTA2 player will try it. a lot may like it. but how many will really stay for long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trseil View Post
    it still takes some time to get used to the Artifacts, Stolen Powers, Augs/Mods, and not to mention champion skills/mechanics.
    this is exactly my other point. Why should I learn the little new mechanics, the hundreds of new combinations of items and skills, why should I level up again... when at the end, the experience and feel i have from the game, is (almost) identical with the experience and feel i have from the game i'm already playing... most people don't like learning new stuffs. but they don't like it even more, when there is no final result from that learning. I mean, the final result in this case is playing new game, yet they learned a bunch of new stuffs and they are playing almost the same game. But give them enough incentive (i.e. the new feel and experience) and they will learn this new stuff.
    Adding leather seats and making a car automatic instead of manually changing the gears does not make it entirely new vehicle, and on top of that if you want me to take another driving exam in order to drive it... no thanks!

    to be honest, i haven't played much IC, but this is exactly the reason why - i feel like playing LoL with DC skins and patched with some new features.I feel like i have played this game a lot. i had this feeling from the 3rd or 4th match i had, although i had no idea what the champs are and what the items are... i was just feeling like returning to LoL after a year of absence

    as for the 2 lane map... ok, it is different from the classic maps. but is this really a new concept? removing a lane, increasing the junglers or whatever, adding some different bonuses? I don't think so. yes the map may have different dynamics of the gameplay but the concept is still the same.

    in the bigger picture all the new features are just small bonuses (and i mean for all the maps). they are not big chances, if the concept remain the same. adding new small objective that may help you win, or changing the buffs of the existing objectives... creating new paths in the map, yes, those are nice things, they can make the battle flow in a bit different direction. but they don't really change the big picture.

    For the villains vs heroes - I agree. there is no way in the beginning to make that as there are still too few champs. but the idea i gave is not necessary to be heroes vs villains. and actually they may have made something completely different where it would be logical for the heroes to team up with the villains. but my point was not in the heroes vs villains concept. in was in the new, different game mode.

    I think they should have made one of the classic modes first - in my opinion the 3 lane tower push, here known as Gotham Divided, i think this for the same reason as you "Giving players who have played the genre before something that they recognize and can pick up easily". BUT then instead investing so much time and effort in creating the other two maps they now have - the "Dominion" style map and the 2 lane map, they should have invested in creating something new and different. by now this new mode would have been done, I think the time it took them creating the 2 other maps is enough to create something new. and now this new map/mode would have been just in final tweaking and balancing.
    THEN just when the open beta starts they would have been like this in some advertisement: "Come and play our new MOBA game in the DC multiverse. It has the classical 3 lane map, but with new and cool next gen features, and still old moba players will feel at home. In addition to that, we have this COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, INNOVATIVE and FUN NEW mode, that you cannot find anywhere else." And they would have exploded.
    So give the foundation (the classic map... it is enough, don't you think? don't tell me you wouldn't have checked the game if it had only one of those classic maps) and then build on top of that. after that, if you prove to be successful take the land next door and make new foundation and build on top of them... or just build second floor
    now they have created so big foundations, that my fear is they will not be able to build everything... if you invest half of your "new house" money in the foundation, you will not have any money to finish even the first floor.

    As I said, the classic maps are great. they ARE fun. they are addicting, this is proven. But for a new game i would like them as a bonus, as a dessert, not as the main meal.
    Last edited by Suncho; 03-03-2014 at 04:28 PM.

  9. #19
    Protector YamiRaziel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    I agree with Suncho. The map design is currently a huge issue with the game.
    The maps are copies of the other games. You said that GH and GD are unique? Care you elaborate? I haven't seen a single thing that is different from GD and makes me feel that I'm not playing Summoner's Rift on LoL. Not a single one. It is basically Summoner's Rift, it has Baron and Drake with some bonuses and people play it the same way they did Summoner's Rift.
    GH is Dominion with a capture point in the middle. Again almost the same experience, gameplay and goal. Changing status and bonuses and adding a feature or two doesn't make the map their own and most definitely doesn't make it different either.

    Do you know what is different? Dominion was entirely different than Summoners Rift. Magma Chamber was different and cool. The ARAM map is cool and it provides different gameplay and experience.
    Putting an extra creep or naming the turrets power relays doesn't make a map feel different.

    PS. Get rid of the damn robots.

  10. #20

    Re: How open is the dev team to maps suggestions?

    exactly my point. and it is so similar, that even the developers in their videos presenting the maps mix up the terminology, is it inhibitor is it dampener... is it turret...

    and again - the game having those maps is not a problem.
    the game having ONLY those maps is the problem. because now even if they decide to fix this and think of something new, it will take them months... maybe even a year and a couple of months, because they just finished the GD and it took them a year...
    unless they were working on something new simultaneously we are pretty away from seeing something new. and i'm afraid this will turn out to be a bad thing for the game.

    and again - I WANT THIS GAME TO BE GREAT! I love DC, i think it has potential. So I hope they do something about that, and hopefully they managed to get it out soon enough. Because the DC fans will give this game a try, they will stick with it longer than the rest, but the people that just like DC and they don't care so much that their champion have Flash skin - they will not be so patient



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